What if ARTPOP didn't 'flop'?

[darkchylde 14,857]

11 minutes ago, Mulholland said:

That image proves my point lol?

Despite coming off of her biggest era (and one of the biggest modern pop eras period), Reputation sold less than half of its predecessor and less than *all* of her other albums.

You do realize what you're saying makes no sense, right? reputation has been out for less than a year. those are up to date numbers of all her albums.

the only thing that "underperformed" was reputations singles even though Taylor was never a singles popstar but an album one.

-----

OT: while i believe ARTPOP is one of Gaga's greatest albums (way better than TF/TFM), all the drama and flop accusations around it helped Gaga realize she could truly do whatever the **** she wanted and put her where she is now, so the balance is positive imo.

 

[Mulholland 1,052]

7 minutes ago, Saint Jude said:

You do realize what you're saying makes no sense, right? reputation has been out for less than a year. those are up to date numbers of all her albums.

the only thing that "underperformed" was reputations singles even though Taylor was never a singles popstar but an album one.

-----

OT: while i believe ARTPOP is one of Gaga's greatest albums (way better than TF/TFM), all the drama and flop accusations around it helped Gaga realize she could truly do whatever the **** she wanted and put her where she is now, so the balance is positive imo.

  

I mean, if you think all Reputation needs is time to catch up to 1989 or really any of her other albums except maybe the first one... I can't really help you? 

The album didn't just underperform singles-wise. Even with the benefit of SPS (which 1989 didn't have for most of its run), it sold significantly less than her previous albums. It was still profitable, yes, but you can't argue it performed on par sales-wise with her previous eras. It also underperformed critically. Metacritic has it as her lowest-rated album.

[darkchylde 14,857]

4 minutes ago, Mulholland said:

I mean, if you think all Reputation needs is time to catch up to 1989 or really any of her other albums except maybe the first one... I can't really help you? 

The album didn't just underperform singles-wise. Even with the benefit of SPS (which 1989 didn't have for most of its run), it sold significantly less than her previous albums. It was still profitable, yes, but you can't argue it performed on par sales-wise with her previous eras. It also underperformed critically. Metacritic has it as her lowest-rated album.

it really still sold 1.2M copies first week i really dont know what you're talking about. of course it needs time to catch up to albums that have been out for four times as much time?

[Mulholland 1,052]

1 minute ago, Saint Jude said:

it really still sold 1.2M copies first week i really dont know what you're talking about. of course it needs time to catch up to albums that have been out for four times as much time?

Do you really think Reputation has the juice to move between 5 and 15 million more copies? A year later? After, what, five previously-released singles? A tour that's halfway over?

[CallMeGaga 5]

idk how many times i need to say it but ARTPOP. WAS. NOT. A. FLOP. 

[CallMeGaga 5]

46 minutes ago, Mulholland said:

That image proves my point lol?

Despite coming off of her biggest era (and one of the biggest modern pop eras period), Reputation sold less than half of its predecessor and less than *all* of her other albums.

The Reputation singles didn't perform nearly as well as 1989's.

The Reputation reviews were tepid at best.

And the press surrounding the Reputation era has been fairly negative. 

I'll give you the tour is a wild success, but that's really the only thing that wasn't kind of a mess for her this time out.

Was it an unqualified flop? No. But neither was ARTPOP, which is kind of the point. The two actually have a lot in common in terms of reception. Both are underperformances when compared with the artist's previous eras. 

the true tea

[darkchylde 14,857]

21 minutes ago, Mulholland said:

Do you really think Reputation has the juice to move between 5 and 15 million more copies? A year later? After, what, five previously-released singles? A tour that's halfway over?

a tour that set the new record as highest grossing tour by a woman in the US? idk if shell sell another 20m of reputation but you just can't call the era a flop or her "falldown" imo. i agree with you that she may not be as big as 1989 because reputation came with a lot of backlash though.

[Mulholland 1,052]

8 minutes ago, Saint Jude said:

a tour that set the new record as highest grossing tour by a woman in the US? idk if shell sell another 20m of reputation but you just can't call the era a flop or her "falldown" imo. i agree with you that she may not be as big as 1989 because reputation came with a lot of backlash though.

I literally didn't call it a flop or her "falldown." In fact, my point was exactly what you just said: Reputation came with a lot of backlash and baggage, and a lot of people in the media and in the public were waiting to pounce on any sign of slowdown or weakness. 

The idea is that every major (female) pop star goes through an era or phase where they don't live up to the high standards they set during previous eras. That doesn't make them or the era a flop. The context here is ARTPOP, remember? My initial post was about that narrative trend. Build the superstar up, then tear them down when they get too big, even if the evidence doesn't support the desire to say someone is "over."

Reputation is not a flop, but it is an underperformance when compared to most other Taylor Swift eras (in every metric but the tour). Literally the same is true of ARTPOP, but on a different scale. It's not a criticism or even all that meaningful! But it does pretty much happen to every pop star, at some point.

[darkchylde 14,857]

2 minutes ago, Mulholland said:

Reputation is not a flop, but it is an underperformance when compared to most other Taylor Swift eras (in every metric but the tour). Literally the same is true of ARTPOP, but on a different scale. It's not a criticism or even all that meaningful! But it does pretty much happen to every pop star, at some point

**** then I missed your points earlier, sorry. I agree with you then 

[Just Saying 0]

2 hours ago, Mulholland said:

I literally didn't call it a flop or her "falldown." In fact, my point was exactly what you just said: Reputation came with a lot of backlash and baggage, and a lot of people in the media and in the public were waiting to pounce on any sign of slowdown or weakness. 

The idea is that every major (female) pop star goes through an era or phase where they don't live up to the high standards they set during previous eras. That doesn't make them or the era a flop. The context here is ARTPOP, remember? My initial post was about that narrative trend. Build the superstar up, then tear them down when they get too big, even if the evidence doesn't support the desire to say someone is "over."

Reputation is not a flop, but it is an underperformance when compared to most other Taylor Swift eras (in every metric but the tour). Literally the same is true of ARTPOP, but on a different scale. It's not a criticism or even all that meaningful! But it does pretty much happen to every pop star, at some point.

In that context, I do agree with you. However, other albums of hers (Speak Now and Red, for example) had sold less than reputation in the timespan of 10 months. I think that the way she handled this era (little to no promotion, literally no TV performances) was based around not associating herself with the media and parts of the public that weren't fans of hers (sort of like redemption for the scandals surrounding her in the year prior). She herself told a fan at a M&G that this album was like an 'interference', and that her next era will be handled similarly to her other ones. I fully agree with what you said about artists having one specific era which doesn't have an appeal to the public like some of their previous pieces of work do. We can all agree on that, however, after such moments in time, some artists' best pieces of work are created (such as Ray of Light with Madonna), so maybe that's a good thing, in a way. 

[Lextyr97 17,539]

Honestly, the answer to your question lies with Taylor Swift. Reputation was supposed to be her flop era and it most DEFINITELY wasn’t. So I think the way in which her career plays out during her next album might be similar to what could’ve happened to Gaga

[Just Saying 0]

Also, if we're really talking sales, BTW had sold WAY less than reputation within a 10 month span, even within a year of its release.

[DC 25,164]

Was there anyone who confirmed ARTPOP DID flop? Cause last I recall, ARTPOP never flopped, it's just Gaga's least popular album by the general public, yes even Joanne performed better, it doesn't mean it flopped though XD