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P!nk normalises Domestic Violence


Bebe

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Alcina Dimitrescu
1 hour ago, Bebe said:

Of course she can write and sing about whatever she wants, but that means nothing. That's like yelling "Free Speech!" whenever you are criticised for saying something offensive.

She has the right to sing and write about whatever she wants, and people have the right to criticise her work when it seems problematic.

Yes, and?

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Bebe
8 minutes ago, Seeka said:

You do realize the bolded paragraphs contradict each other, right?

glamorizing and normalizing mean it's not only pushing more sad views onto the victim, but also saying that it's gonna make it happen more often and be common. Glamorizing it means that not only is it okay, but it's beautiful in a sad Hollywood way. Essentially enticing more people to do it.

And you make it honestly sound like all abusers are out there brainwashing their victims with pink videos and songs. Do you realize that is how you can be interpreted, correct?

Plus also, there are a millions reasons, not related to Pink on why a domestically abusing relationship can and will go on. Money/financial issues being one. Having absolute pity for each other is another one.

I just think you should stop, honestly.

It doesn't contradict anything. 

Glamorizing  domestic violence doesn't mean that it's making people violent :smh: It means that it is made to look glamorous, that it is made to look enticing. Domestic violence in P!nk's videos are made to look beautiful, attractive and even idyllic. 

That in turn helps contribute to a culture where domestic violence seems less serious and can seemingly be justified.


"And you make it honestly sound like all abusers are out there brainwashing their victims with pink videos and songs." That's not at all what I have even implied. I have very clearly talked about P!nk contributing to a CULTURE, I've clearly talked about the messages in P!nk's work being harmful - you keep trying to make this about me saying "P!nk is going to single handedly cause someone to punch their partner!" or "Abusers and Abuse victims are going to watch P!nk  videos and it will brainwash them into thinking it's okay!"

"Plus also, there are a millions reasons, not related to Pink on why a domestically abusing relationship can and will go on. Money/financial issues being one."

Of course???

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Bebe
3 minutes ago, SecretWeapon said:

Yes, and?

So, when your only defence of P!nk's videos and lyrics are "She can write/sing about whatever she wants" it's a very poor defense and completely misses the point about what is being discussed.

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Bebe
8 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

I see where you're coming from, but I think you're over-analyzing 'True Love'

In 'True Love', from how I see it, the whole point of the video/song isn't to show that she's abusing him, but to show that sometimes he pisses her off so much that she just feels like 'choking' him sometimes.

Sometimes she really hates him, but she really loves him. So it must be like 'true love' since she feels so much love for her significant other even though she may dislike him sometimes and feels like choking him. 

Again, I feel like you're reading too far into this. 

edit: and I doubt she really means she would actually abuse him, it's just a figure of speech lol to show how she really hates him sometimes 

edit 2: i mean, sometimes my mom gets really pissed at me if I do something REALLY bad and she feels like choking me because it just really was something bad. She would never do that though because even though she really dislikes me at times, she will always love me.

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and dont take this as her abusing me :wtf: since you want to dig too far and over-analyze things :wtf:

 

I'm not saying that True Love is about domestic abuse though... I clearly stated at the bottom of the OP that I'm not saying P!nk or Carey are in a violent relationship.

I'm saying it's a song that is problematic in the way it conflates conflict and violence with passion and love. It's problematic in the way that the ONLY reasons given on why this is true love is that she wants to slap him, choke him and that she hates him so much.

It's that sort of rationalisation that an abuser gives, and it's the sort of rationalisation that an abused person internalises :shrug:

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imwoahvicky
Just now, Bebe said:

I'm not saying that True Love is about domestic abuse though... I clearly stated at the bottom of the OP that I'm not saying P!nk or Carey are in a violent relationship.

I'm saying it's a song that is problematic in the way it conflates conflict and violence with passion and love. It's problematic in the way that the ONLY reasons given on why this is true love is that she wants to slap him, choke him and that she hates him so much.

It's that sort of rationalisation that an abuser gives, and it's the sort of rationalisation that an abused person internalises :shrug:

That's not how I interpreted it.

When she says how she wants to choke him sometimes and how she really hates him but she still loves him no matter what, it must be true love because no else has made her feel this way before and have all these emotions at once.

The 'domestic violence' is all just figurative language, figure of speech, etc. and she's not trying to glorify the violence, but instead she's describing her emotions towards the guy that she fell in love with and how he made her feel sometimes. 

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Bebe
11 minutes ago, Scarlet said:

That's not how I interpreted it.

When she says how she wants to choke him sometimes and how she really hates him but she still loves him no matter what, it must be true love because no else has made her feel this way before and have all these emotions at once.

The 'domestic violence' is all just figurative language, figure of speech, etc. and she's not trying to glorify the violence, but instead she's describing her emotions towards the guy that she fell in love with and how he made her feel sometimes. 

"When she says how she wants to choke him sometimes and how she really hates him but she still loves him no matter what, it must be true love because no else has made her feel this way before and have all these emotions at once."

:giveup: I really don't know how to even begin this conversation with you...
It's not a good or healthy thing that the relationship is based on how she loves him too much but also really hates him. It's not a healthy thing to say:

"Sometimes I hate every single stupid word you say. Sometimes I wanna slap you in your whole face"

"But I hate you, I really hate you So much, I think it must be True Love"

HATE ISN'T PROOF OF TRUE LOVE. Wanting to hit someone (or hitting someone), wanting to choke someone (or choking someone) or hating someone so much isn't proof of true love and that's a very dangerous idea to send out. Period. 

She is associating her feelings of wanting to physically hurt him and hating him as evidence that it's true love. She says so explicitly in the lyrics and even your interpretation works with this.

It's one thing to love someone despite them occasionally pissing you off, it's another thing to associate this conflict with passion and say that them pissing you off is evidence that love is true.

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Seeka

I think there's another thing to bring up here...

Hate is passion, so is love. They are two sides of the same coin.

The opposite of both love and hate is indifference.

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Bebe
4 minutes ago, Seeka said:

I think there's another thing to bring up here...

Hate is passion, so is love. They are two sides of the same coin.

The opposite of both love and hate is indifference.


Conflict and violence =/= love and passion though.

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imwoahvicky
12 minutes ago, Bebe said:

"When she says how she wants to choke him sometimes and how she really hates him but she still loves him no matter what, it must be true love because no else has made her feel this way before and have all these emotions at once."

:giveup: I really don't know how to even begin this conversation with you...
It's not a good or healthy thing that the relationship is based on how she loves him too much but also really hates him. It's not a healthy thing to say:

"Sometimes I hate every single stupid word you say. Sometimes I wanna slap you in your whole face"

"But I hate you, I really hate you So much, I think it must be True Love"

HATE ISN'T PROOF OF TRUE LOVE. Wanting to hit someone (or hitting someone), wanting to choke someone (or choking someone) or hating someone so much isn't proof of true love and that's a very dangerous idea to send out. Period. 

She is associating her feelings of wanting to physically hurt him and hating him as evidence that it's true love. She says so explicitly in the lyrics and even your interpretation works with this.

For the first part in bold, I feel like you're missing the point that she's just figuratively explaining how he sometimes makes her feel. She doesn't actually want to hurt him or do anything bad to him or domestically abuse him. 

She's simply describing how he sometimes makes her feel

Sometimes he may piss her off so bad that she just feels like slapping him in the face or choking him (again, she is FIGURATIVELY speaking she is not actually going to domestically abuse him :toofunny:) but she still loves him because it must be true love. No one has ever made her feel this way before and feel all these emotions and that she's in love.

No relationship is perfect and at one point (in just about every relationship) you feel like slapping your significant other because of how they may have intentionally or unintentionally mistreated you. 

You're reading way too far into this. 

She's not actually going to physically abuse him and cut his throat or something :toofunny:

edit: i feel like you aren't putting this into perspective and automatically assuming that she's screaming 'PHYSICAL ABUSE! I WANT TO TORMENT MY BOYFRIEND! I WANT TO CHOKE HIM OUT!' :toofunny: lyrics could mean anything and you aren't looking at this in a different point of view 

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I'm sorry no. Everyone knows domestic violence is wrong. Nothing can possibly "normalize" it. No sane person will be like "Pink did whatever so why can't I". Of course there are concepts, visuals and aesthetics in every form of art like photography, music, film, books, ect that might not be everyone's cup of tea, some might even find them offensive, wrong, hurtful. If that's the case than you are free to choose not to watch/read it and avoid it. I think it's very dangerous that lately we as a society want to come for every single thing we might not like for some questionable reasons and ask to ban it instead of ignoring it. I'm not saying that the OP is doing this of course, but it's in the same spirit. And there are exceptions to what I am saying, but usually when something is truly "wrong" there is some sort of a general consensus among the public. 

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Alcina Dimitrescu
25 minutes ago, Bebe said:

So, when your only defence of P!nk's videos and lyrics are "She can write/sing about whatever she wants" it's a very poor defense and completely misses the point about what is being discussed.

Because your point is ridiculous and your argument about "yelling freedom of speech" applies to what you're doing as well lol. You can say its "problematic" or w.e. and you can even be right, but why does she need to behave differently? Should she spew bs just because it might "trigger" someone? The answer is no.

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imwoahvicky

Also, not to mention, most people (maybe not you, maybe not everyone) who have been in a long term relationship could somehow relate to this song in some shape or form.

When you're with someone for a very long time who is not perfect, but yet despite their flaws you still love everything about them no matter what (even though you may feel like slapping them sometimes or choking them).

No relationship is ever going to be perfect and even though it is not that doesn't mean that it is not true love it just means that everyone is human and we all have our bad habits that may get on the nerves of our significant other at times. 

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Bebe
Just now, Scarlet said:

For the first part in bold, I feel like you're missing the point that she's just figuratively explaining how he sometimes makes her feel. She doesn't actually want to hurt him or do anything bad to him or domestically abuse him. 

She's simply describing how he sometimes makes her feel

Sometimes he may piss her off so bad that she just feels like slapping him in the face or choking him (again, she is FIGURATIVELY speaking she is not actually going to domestically abuse him :toofunny:) but she still loves him because it must be true love. No one has ever made her feel this way before and feel all these emotions and that she's in love.

No relationship is perfect and at one point (in just about every relationship) you feel like slapping your significant other because of how they may have intentionally or unintentionally mistreated you. 

You're reading way too far into this. 

She's not actually going to physically abuse him and cut his throat or something :toofunny:

I am SOOO aware that she is talking about how she feels I have already stated in my OP and to you that I am not saying P!nk is in a violent relationship. I don't know how many times I can tell you this.

I'm not saying P!nk is actually going to physically abuse him and cut his throat or something. I haven't said that anywhere. We are both aware that the lyrics are figurative. Please read what I have written to you.

The problem is P!nk directly associating her violent feelings with passion and love. The problem is that P!nk is portraying her hatred and her violent feelings as evidence of love. Hate =/= proof of love. Wanting to slap someone or choke someone =/= proof of love.

You can love someone despite them sometimes pissing you off, but you don't love someone BECAUSE they piss you off. The fact that they piss you off isn't evidence that your love is true.

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imwoahvicky
1 minute ago, Bebe said:

You can love someone despite them sometimes pissing you off, but you don't love someone BECAUSE they piss you off. The fact that they piss you off isn't evidence that your love is true.

She's not describing that the entire relationship is based off of them pissing her off :emma:

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