P!nk normalises Domestic Violence

[Pablo 6,940]

It's art, I think it's okay. I don't know much about p!nk but maybe she grew up around domestic violence and to sing about it. 

[mmm 879]

lol this is crazy you all are sick people

[Bebe 16,562]

9 hours ago, Iwontell said:

I see what you're trying to say, but I don't really think like that.

I mean, a lot of what was pointed out could be easily, and maybe more reasonably, interpreted as metaphors to the harm we inflict on each other in an emotional/psychological level...I mean, I've seen "punchbag" being used to describe someone who just passively accepts to be treated poorly - not necessarily being physically assaulted -, I've seen ppl in a moment of anger saying they want to slap someone - not that they'd ever do it, but just to express how they feel, which is not great, but it's pretty innocuous - and even the choreography for try feels more like a visual representation of the mental damage we cause on each other than an actual portrayal of a woman being assaulted.

I think what you're saying comes from a nice place, a place of concern with other ppl, but maybe you're reading too much into it...(and the fact that you're so quick to connect all that to physical abuse makes me wonder if you're ok...is anything bad going on?)

Videos that depict domestic abuse in a humorous way (as shown in Please Don't Leave Me) seem to be treating a serious issue in a flippant way. The punching bag line seems pretty harmless, but in the context of the video and the entire song it's something different

The dance clearly depicts domestic violence, as pointed out by others it comes from the Apache dance  which is "sometimes said to reenact a violent "discussion" between a pimp and a prostitute". The extreme violence depicted in the dance coupled with lyrics telling you that even when you get burned and hurt you got to keep getting up and trying is what is worrying. This troubled and violent relationship is glamorized as beautiful and the message is: You got to keep on trying!

Again, the problem with True Love isn't the expression of frustration. Rather, it is the fact that Pink’s negative feelings for her partner are her only proof that she loves him. The fact that P!nk wants to slap his face, wrap her hands around his neck, hates every single stupid word he says and just really hates him is the proof that it's true love. That sort of stuff could come straight out of the mouth of an abuser.

It's not even my ideas in complete fairness, there is plenty of criticism from groups that deal with domestic abuse. My concern doesn't come from a place of fear because I'm in danger, it probably comes from my background in psychology and my background working at hotlines talking to people that want to commit suicide - many of whom came from domestic violence situations

[Seeka 12,372]

Just because it's in the lyrics/music video, doesn't mean it happens or that's how you truly feel about a subject.

Please do not think musically set poetry has to influenced by real life/has to be realistic. Or has a message you promote.

[Seeka 12,372]

Plus another thing to add in is that the videos could be representatives of made up characters and stuff.

Also, if you're making this large of a fuss over three music videos, I'd love to hear what you'd have to say about Mirai Nikki and the Goddess of Yandere: Yuno.

[Bebe 16,562]

8 minutes ago, Seeka said:

Just because it's in the lyrics/music video, doesn't mean it happens or that's how you truly feel about a subject.

Please do not think musically set poetry has to influenced by real life/has to be realistic. Or has a message you promote.

Nobody is saying this, I'm certainly not

I'm just commenting on the message of the work, intentional or not, and criticising that.

Treating domestic abuse in a video in a way that is so flippant and treated in a way that is supposed to be humorous sends a message.
Treating domestic abuse in a video as something beautiful in a dance, while singing about how you got to keep trying when you are burned or hurt sends a message.
Singing about how proof that it's true love is wanting to physically harm your partner sends a particular message.

Such messages are powerful and contribute to a particular culture and how that culture views such issues. It's completely fair and possible to criticise P!nk and the message she sends while taking into consideration everything you have written.

[Seeka 12,372]

Just now, Bebe said:

Nobody is saying this, I'm certainly not

I'm just commenting on the message of the work, intentional or not, and criticising that.
Treating domestic abuse in a video in a way that is so flippant and treated in a way that is supposed to be humorous sends a message.
Treating domestic abuse in a video as something beautiful, while singing about how you got to keep trying when you are burned or hurt sends a message.
Singing about how proof that it's true love is wanting to physically harm your partner sends a particular message.

Such messages are powerful and contribute to a particular culture and how that culture views such issues.

It's completely fair and possible to criticise P!nk and the message she sends while taking into consideration everything you have written.

Well, still there are some things to be taken into consideration, though. Please Don't Leave Me is inspired by the Shining and Misery, the shining itself having overtones of domestic abuse and strained familial relations. Misery is about a woman who kidnaps her favorite author and basically tortures him to continue a series he had already ended.

If you're gonna condemn Pink you gotta condemn the king.

You may wanna go through this and see what you feel about it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale

but honestly, P!nk isn't as popular as she used to be, and there is domestic violence in ramas and everything? Is she not allowed to use it in her videos and songs for a story or what?

and another thing is, some people have naturally vitriolic romances. That's just how they are. their sexual tension is belligerent and they call each other names, and it's impossible to know why they fell in love with each other, but these couples exist.

 

[Evan Peters 10,298]

i think domestic abuse as a whole is swept under the rug, especially when it portrays the male as the victim. I don't really listen to pink nor watch her videos, but looking into it i see where you're coming from. I don't think she herself is an actual abuser, but she definitely uses it to create a stronger meaning behind the lyrics she writes. 

can people please stop with the whole "that's how she was raised" spiel?  just because your family was abusive it doesn't give you the right to go and be abusive. Again, I don't think Pink is out there physically/emotionally abusing her husband, but c'mon now. Don't be so ignorant, guys. 

the whole 'it's her art' argument reminds me of the controversy with lana del rey. lana is constantly accused of glamorizing abuse and i always see people going back and forth on whether it's ok for her to go 'he hit me and it felt like a kiss' or 'Beat me and tell me no one will love me' because she's simply speaking from her own experiences as a victim or if she just thinks there's something beautiful about 'passionate' relationships. 

[Bebe 16,562]

Just now, Seeka said:

Well, still there are some things to be taken into consideration, though. Please Don't Leave Me is inspired by the Shining and Misery, the shining itself having overtones of domestic abuse and strained familial relations. Misery is about a woman who kidnaps her favorite author and basically tortures him to continue a series he had already ended.

If you're gonna condemn Pink you gotta condemn the king.

You may wanna go through this and see what you feel about it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale

but honestly, P!nk isn't as popular as she used to be, and there is domestic violence in ramas and everything? Is she not allowed to use it in her videos and songs for a story or what?

and another thing is, some people have naturally vitriolic romances. That's just how they are. their sexual tension is belligerent and they call each other names, and it's impossible to know why they fell in love with each other, but these couples exist.

 

I'm completely aware about Misery, I am aware that it's a parody of Misery, I have watched. Misery is a film that clearly by it's nature deals with domestic violence. There are minor issues with Misery, but I don't think it's depiction of domestic violence is one of them.  In Misery, the violence is never funny. It's never treated as something so flippant. In Misery the violence is serious and treated as such.

I skimmed through the double standards page, I seem to agree with most of it, I'm not sure what the point was

P!nk is allowed create whatever she wants. I do think she has to claim responsibility for what she says and creates. There is a way to depict domestic violence that doesn't romanticise it, glamorise it or normalise it. 

Also, of course such couples exist

 

[Seeka 12,372]

15 minutes ago, Bebe said:

I'm completely aware about Misery, I am aware that it's a parody of Misery, I have watched. Misery is a film that clearly by it's nature deals with domestic violence. There are minor issues with Misery, but I don't think it's depiction of domestic violence is one of them.  In Misery, the violence is never funny. It's never treated as something so flippant. In Misery the violence is serious and treated as such.

I skimmed through the double standards page, I seem to agree with most of it, I'm not sure what the point was

P!nk is allowed create whatever she wants. I do think she has to claim responsibility for what she says and creates. There is a way to depict domestic violence that doesn't romanticise it, glamorise it or normalise it. 

Also, of course such couples exist

 

He's there thing though... to you, it seems romanticized, glamorized, or normalized.

But to everyone else it's like "Huh okay, that's probably just you." To the point you probably have to be like "maybe it is just me?"

I mean, I can see your points, but honestly, not to the point you see them to.

And that's kind of a problem, no one will see the points as exactly as you do. Many normal people will be like "okay the psychoanalysis is fun, but this isn't effecting masses and masses of people." And like, what is the honest point? Pink hasn't released an album in like what... two or three years?

I mean, it's fun and all but, honestly, it's not effecting the lives of victims everywhere. I think they're a little to worried about getting beaten to actual death. And if someone abuses someone else, no damn song is an excuse.

This is like saying violent videogames make people violent. That concept has been proven mostly null and void. So I believe the same would apply here, would it not?

 

[Bebe 16,562]

Just now, Seeka said:

He's there thing though... to you, it seems romanticized, glamorized, or normalized.

But to everyone else it's like "Huh okay, that's probably just you." To the point you probably have to be like "maybe it is just me?"

I mean, I can see your points, but honestly, not to the point you see them to.

And that's kind of a problem, no one will see the points as exactly as you do. Many normal people will be like "okay the psychoanalysis is fun, but this isn't effecting masses and masses of people." And like, what is the honest point? Pink hasn't released an album in like what... two or three years?

I mean, it's fun and all but, honestly, it's not effecting the lives of victims everywhere. I think they're a little to worried about getting beaten to actual death. And if someone abuses someone else, no damn song is an excuse.

This is like saying violent videogames make people violent. That concept has been proven mostly null and void. So I believe the same would apply here, would it not?

 

"But to everyone else it's like "Huh okay, that's probably just you." To the point you probably have to be like "maybe it is just me?""

Well that's not true  there are people here that agree, and there have been articles from The Huffington Post to The Sociological Cinema to The National Domestic Violence Hotline that have criticised P!nk for her depictions of domestic violence

I have repeatedly said that I am not saying listening to P!nk or watching her videos are going to make someone violent towards their partner  I have repeatedly said that's not the case. There has been no point where I have even implied this and to state so would be a complete misrepresentation of what I have written.

What I do think the videos and songs do, is help normalise and glamorise domestic abuse. It reinforces what an abuser already thinks and reinforces what an abuse survivor already thinks.

It tells the abuser that their relationship is normal and that it's okay. It reinforces that it's okay to be violent towards your partner in certain circumstances. To the abused it reinforces the reasons why they stay in the relationship. Sometimes victims have nowhere else to go, sometimes they think the violence is proof of a partner’s true love and what they need to do is get up off the floor and keep trying.

Sometimes they feel that it is their responsibility, as loving partners, to keep trying to make it work. Sometimes they believe their partners when they say they are going to change. Sometimes, after living in a society that, (through subtle means, like pop songs) normalizes and romanticizes domestic violence, victims fail to understand that they can and should expect more.

[imwoahvicky 4,248]

This site reads too far into things sometimes 

Spoiler

"my fans think everything is cryptic" teas

 

[Bebe 16,562]

1 minute ago, Scarlet said:

This site reads too far into things sometimes 

  Reveal hidden contents

"my fans think everything is cryptic" teas

 

You don't have to dig deep  Pink literally abuses her partner in the video and it's spelled out in the lyrics.

It doesn't take anything deep to see the domestic abuse she is very clearly depicting. 

[Seeka 12,372]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

"But to everyone else it's like "Huh okay, that's probably just you." To the point you probably have to be like "maybe it is just me?""

Well that's not true  there are people here that agree, and there have been articles from The Huffington Post to The Sociological Cinema to The National Domestic Violence Hotline that have criticised P!nk for her depictions of domestic violence

I have repeatedly said that I am not saying listening to P!nk or watching her videos are going to make someone violent towards their partner  I have repeatedly said that's not the case. There has been no point where I have even implied this and to state so would be a complete misrepresentation of what I have written.

What I do think the videos and songs do, is help normalise and glamorise domestic abuse. It reinforces what an abuser already thinks and reinforces what an abuse survivor already thinks.

It tells the abuser that their relationship is normal and that it's okay. It reinforces that it's okay to be violent towards your partner in certain circumstances. To the abused it reinforces the reasons why they stay in the relationship. Sometimes victims have nowhere else to go, sometimes they think the violence is proof of a partner’s true love and what they need to do is get up off the floor and keep trying.

Sometimes they feel that it is their responsibility, as loving partners, to keep trying to make it work. Sometimes they believe their partners when they say they are going to change. Sometimes, after living in a society that, (through subtle means, like pop songs) normalizes and romanticizes domestic violence, victims fail to understand that they can and should expect more.

You do realize the bolded paragraphs contradict each other, right?

glamorizing and normalizing mean it's not only pushing more sad views onto the victim, but also saying that it's gonna make it happen more often and be common. Glamorizing it means that not only is it okay, but it's beautiful in a sad Hollywood way. Essentially enticing more people to do it.

And you make it honestly sound like all abusers are out there brainwashing their victims with pink videos and songs. Do you realize that is how you can be interpreted, correct?

Plus also, there are a millions reasons, not related to Pink on why a domestically abusing relationship can and will go on. Money/financial issues being one. Having absolute pity for each other is another one.

I just think you should stop, honestly.

[imwoahvicky 4,248]

4 minutes ago, Bebe said:

You don't have to dig deep  Pink literally abuses her partner in the video and it's spelled out in the lyrics.

It doesn't take anything deep to see the domestic abuse she is very clearly depicting. 

I see where you're coming from, but I think you're over-analyzing 'True Love'

In 'True Love', from how I see it, the whole point of the video/song isn't to show that she's abusing him, but to show that sometimes he pisses her off so much that she just feels like 'choking' him sometimes.

Sometimes she really hates him, but she really loves him. So it must be like 'true love' since she feels so much love for her significant other even though she may dislike him sometimes and feels like choking him. 

Again, I feel like you're reading too far into this. 

edit: and I doubt she really means she would actually abuse him, it's just a figure of speech lol to show how she really hates him sometimes 

edit 2: i mean, sometimes my mom gets really pissed at me if I do something REALLY bad and she feels like choking me because it just really was something bad. She would never do that though because even though she really dislikes me at times, she will always love me.

Spoiler

and dont take this as her abusing me  since you want to dig too far and over-analyze things