Genre-labelling has racial standards?

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

2 hours ago, RainbowBlonde said:

What are you trying to say here..?

The music industry molds any new artist to be the image of the genre they represent

If you're a rapper, country star, pop star, jazz singer etc....there's a look...not talking fashion wise unfortunately  

 

[StrawberryBlond 13,279]

Racial genre labelling does indeed exist but it doesn't always come down to colour. It can be about vocals. You can easily turn a song from pop to RnB by singing it a certain way, just like how you can turn a dance song into a heartbreaking ballad (We Found Love covers) or you can turn a pop song into country (Gaga's "Country Road" version of Born This Way). You could alternatively change instrumentation and turn a pop song into rock (Katy Perry's Superbowl version of I Kissed A Girl) or a folk song into a blusey jazz song (Gaga's cover of Bang Bang). Artists reimagine their biggest hits into different genres all the time. If the song was like this back in the day, it would totally have been labelled differently. But yes, unfortunately, there is an element in the industry of thinking an artist must be singing a particular style of music because of their race. Plenty of black artists have even been encouraged to pursue an urban direction as it would be more profitable for them. I think I remember Santigold once said that trying to get anywhere as a black woman doing electronic music was a nightmare. However, there can be labelling exceptions. The white singer, Robin Thicke (remember him?) said that he was puzzled as to why his new music was being labelled as pop when up until then, he'd always been labelled as RnB. That's an exception to the rule. Music from other white artists like Gwen Stefani, Madonna, Justin Timberlake, Ed Sheeran, Jessie J, etc. have also been labelled as RnB before. And of course, Gaga with DWUW (RnB feature or not, that song was definitively called RnB).

@RainbowBlonde Irreplaceable is defined as "Pop, RnB" on Wikipedia. But realise that Wiki can be waaaaay off when labelling lots of music and it's not unusual for the genres to change on articles over time. Remember that anyone can alter Wiki pages, so this will happen. You'll notice that when a new song has just come out, its genre definition will be all over the place on Wiki for the first few days, while people try to work out the best way of describing it and there's conflicting views. Beyonce's new album had very different definitions initially and it's still going through changes. I recall there being "experimental funk" and "alternative blues" being definitions at first but it's currently very easy to understand definitions at the moment but I don't know how long that will last. I'd never trust Wiki to define a genre, ever. Not kidding, Katy Perry's song, Birthday, is defined as "disco" on Wiki. This song is 100% pure pop, there shouldn't be an argument here. Just because something might have a little disco-esque inflection doth not a disco song make. I don't know who edited that and why Wiki deemed it appropriate to maintain. So that right there is reason why you should never trust what Wiki says.

As for what I regard as RnB, well, as the name suggests, rhythm and blues. But quite how I'd describe it, I don't know. Even Wiki struggles to define what it means. I always thought it was a slow, steady kind of urban music, nothing uptempo. I primarily think of RnB as sexy bedroom jams. RnB music was always a slow kind of music in my world. And it was all about the vocals - you had to be an good vocalist and having a certain kind of vocal - falsettos, runs, ad-libbing, whistles, deep in parts. Like I said previously, the vocals can really decide what genre a song is. I'd always struggled to define a lot of black artists today because a lot of them are making something in between rap/hip hop and RnB but it's definitely not either of those genres. This is why I define Beyonce and Rihanna as "urban pop" most of the time - they're definitely not rapping (though they may feature rappers) and while they may do the occasional RnB song, it's not a full-time genre for them. They've always been straddling pop and urban, making a combination of the two. I wouldn't describe Blank Space as RnB at all. Listening to the instrumental, it's a very light, "airy" pop sound, a little futuristic. And at 1:05, some acoustic guitar inflections come in and that's definitely not RnB. And the vocals are not RnB at all. To me, RnB is (artists from the current music scene)...Dance For You by Beyonce, Often by The Weeknd, Do What U Want by Lady Gaga, Cry Me A River by Justin Timberlake, Pillowtalk by Zayn, Hotline Bling by Drake.

7 hours ago, CrazyMonster said:

For me Beyoncé is totally pop, she just gets labeled as an Rnb artist cause she's black, for me she just has rnb influences.

I really don't think that's the reason. She started out unquestionably RnB/soul and then progressed into a pop direction and has worked her way back around again. With Destiny's Child, it was all purely urban and all about the vocals and harmonising, almost gospel. Her debut album was all that stuff, just solo. B'Day was more pop influenced and Sasha Fierce even moreso (her most pop release). But through all that, there was still an urban undercurrent. And with 4, Self titled and Lemonade, she's gone back to her roots more and more. She's not been truly pop since 2010. I could list many of her urban tracks on every album. The only songs that could possibly be called pop on Lemonade are (by my standards, anyway), Love Drought and Sandcastles. Everything else is a mish-mash of urban, country, rock, etc. Like I said above, she merges urban genres to create a sound that couldn't be defined as any particular form of urban music, so I just give it the umbrella term "urban" to cover all the bases. I have always struggled to call Beyonce a popstar, even though a lot of people do, especially now. It's nothing to do with race, it's all to do with her music and vocal style.

[The Child 18,994]

33 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I really don't think that's the reason. She started out unquestionably RnB/soul and then progressed into a pop direction and has worked her way back around again. With Destiny's Child, it was all purely urban and all about the vocals and harmonising, almost gospel. Her debut album was all that stuff, just solo. B'Day was more pop influenced and Sasha Fierce even moreso (her most pop release). But through all that, there was still an urban undercurrent. And with 4, Self titled and Lemonade, she's gone back to her roots more and more. She's not been truly pop since 2010. I could list many of her urban tracks on every album. The only songs that could possibly be called pop on Lemonade are (by my standards, anyway), Love Drought and Sandcastles. Everything else is a mish-mash of urban, country, rock, etc. Like I said above, she merges urban genres to create a sound that couldn't be defined as any particular form of urban music, so I just give it the umbrella term "urban" to cover all the bases. I have always struggled to call Beyonce a popstar, even though a lot of people do, especially now. It's nothing to do with race, it's all to do with her music and vocal style.

For me she's a popstar, the fact that she mixes urban, rnb, rock, country & soul makes her pop cause she mixes all these different genres to appeal to a mainstream public.

[StrawberryBlond 13,279]

19 minutes ago, CrazyMonster said:

For me she's a popstar, the fact that she mixes urban, rnb, rock, country & soul makes her pop cause she mixes all these different genres to appeal to a mainstream public.

See, I define pop as a specific genre, a sound, it's not just a shortened form of "popular." But not everyone defines it like that. I think you can create a pop sound but not be popular and be popular but not pop. Any genre of music can be made mainstream, it doesn't mean you're pop for doing it. "Pop" is one of those terms that means something different to everyone, even pop fans. But for me, it's a sound and it doesn't involve making other genres mainstream. If you make a lot of genres, you can just be a multi-talented artist that can't be defined.