Madonna pulls an 16 yo girl's top down at her Brisbane show

[Javier Gallo 199]

Lol didn't Gaga gave an underage Whiskey in Holland during the BTWB?

[Snow 1,582]

19 minutes ago, Javier Gallo said:

Lol didn't Gaga gave an underage Whiskey in Holland during the BTWB?

Ouch! Burn

PS. The girl was back at The show tonight and they talked a bit during "The wedding section" cant find a clip now. So she's STILL FINE AND GREAT

[StrawberryBlond 13,284]

5 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I agree with you except for the word use of the word "enlightened" as it sounds presumptuous and that there is one true opinion about this stuff. Some women (and men) *are* liberated by being overtly sexual, some aren't. There is a difference between ****ography and eroticism, but I think it's a line that is blurred way too often. When people say that someone expressing themselves sexually is ****ographic, or "slutty" (awful term), it's them denying that person the means of fully expressing themselves. Eroticism is the having the freedom of exploring your sexuality and how that manifests itself in your personality. ****ography is someone objectifying you and observing you in a sexualized manner. There's a difference there. *You* get to explore yourself in an erotic manner, *they* objectify you. It's a difference of power dynamics that I think is overlooked, but shouldn't be. All in all, I think with feminism it is a tricky thing to make large statements about what is good and bad for it when there is no consensus on that even among scholars. It all depends on the perspective you are approaching the situation from. Some feminists think we need to radicalize and overthrow the establishment while some think we can work within the system and make reforms. Both want to free women, but their approach to productive vs. unproductive feminism is going to be very different.

 

I'm not trying to attack you, but you do seem to have some good mind and some good feminist thoughts so I thought I'd open a dialogue 

I didn't mean it to sound snooty. It was my way of saying "I didn't realise how many problems there were in this area until I was educated about it." And I sometimes think if more people knew, they'd change their minds too. I know that there's a difference between p*rn and erotica (for years, I didn't realise, though, I thought erotica was just less extreme, classier p*rn and I still think this is what a lot of people think too). Indeed, it's a line that's blurred too often. I don't have a problem with erotica, but p*rn, definitely. I don't think expressing yourself sexually needs to be p*rnographic or slutty - I advocate for a much more classy way of going about it. But being more provocative can work, I would just rather it wasn't with explicit nudity. The problem is, erotica and p*rn seem too closely related now as both terms aren't fully understood, like I mentioned above. P*rn is also not limited to having sex with people, it can be a solo thing too, which is why some people don't think some explicit solo expressions count as p*rn when it actually is.

Yes, even feminists can't decide what's good and bad, especially when it comes to sexuality. It's probably the most devisive topic we have as a group because most are strictly in one camp or the other and then there's people like me, who want to find a middle ground, as I don't believe extremes are healthy. There are definitely some aspects of society I think need to be overthrown, others I just think need slight improvements. But I don't take an extreme view throughout my entire feminist ideology. I don't even like to call myself a particular wave of feminism, I'm my own brand, because I didn't necessarily believe in everything each wave said. Thankfully, there's a bunch of feminists writing books now, advocating for a middle ground for sexuality - Ariel Levy, M.G Durham, Laura Bates, Bridget Christie. And their books are getting a great reception, so here's hoping it's the start of something.

I'm pleased that you were so respectful and think I have good points. It makes a difference from being called a prude or uptight because I try to offer a different way of looking at things that differs from the norm.

[Ziggy 10,357]

4 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I didn't mean it to sound snooty. It was my way of saying "I didn't realise how many problems there were in this area until I was educated about it." And I sometimes think if more people knew, they'd change their minds too. I know that there's a difference between p*rn and erotica (for years, I didn't realise, though, I thought erotica was just less extreme, classier p*rn and I still think this is what a lot of people think too). Indeed, it's a line that's blurred too often. I don't have a problem with erotica, but p*rn, definitely. I don't think expressing yourself sexually needs to be p*rnographic or slutty - I advocate for a much more classy way of going about it. But being more provocative can work, I would just rather it wasn't with explicit nudity. The problem is, erotica and p*rn seem too closely related now as both terms aren't fully understood, like I mentioned above. P*rn is also not limited to having sex with people, it can be a solo thing too, which is why some people don't think some explicit solo expressions count as p*rn when it actually is.

Yes, even feminists can't decide what's good and bad, especially when it comes to sexuality. It's probably the most devisive topic we have as a group because most are strictly in one camp or the other and then there's people like me, who want to find a middle ground, as I don't believe extremes are healthy. There are definitely some aspects of society I think need to be overthrown, others I just think need slight improvements. But I don't take an extreme view throughout my entire feminist ideology. I don't even like to call myself a particular wave of feminism, I'm my own brand, because I didn't necessarily believe in everything each wave said. Thankfully, there's a bunch of feminists writing books now, advocating for a middle ground for sexuality - Ariel Levy, M.G Durham, Laura Bates, Bridget Christie. And their books are getting a great reception, so here's hoping it's the start of something.

I'm pleased that you were so respectful and think I have good points. It makes a difference from being called a prude or uptight because I try to offer a different way of looking at things that differs from the norm.

"classier ****" hahaha I like the ring that has to it.

I definitely agree that most people blur erotica and ****ography (Hell, look at Madonna's Erotica album and the reception to that) into one thing so it makes it difficult to talk about. I wish more people would listen to Audre Lorde's "Uses of the Erotic" as it's probably the most accessible means of understanding the difference between the two. That's wonderful that you've been able to define feminism for yourself. I know some disagree with the idea, but I don't really see how there can be one definition of feminism that accounts for the entire spectrum of female experience. Plus, once you start pushing into the queer theory territory and gender gets thrown into the mix, it expands beyond females into a gendered experience. Of course, then you have the problem of some rejecting the gender binary all together claiming that it itself is restrictive. I'm rambling, but it's like, how can there be one definition of feminism when there's so much theory, history and action, ya know?

[Juvelius 375]

http://www.e-radio.gr/post/52904/ellhnida-kai-montelo-h-17xronh-poy-ksegumnwse-h-madonna-pics  

the girl is greek and she had crickets on her top and it was dragged by accident. Also she reappered with her mom on the final show( a madonna stan  wearing cone bra ) and had a chat about it with M live. M exposing those media haters