Gaga should be extra careful about the Kesha case

[Fiona Apple 13,006]

15 hours ago, Whispering said:

99 per cent is not the same as 75 per cent. 

No, I didn't make it up, but I get the feeling I'm talking to a young teen. Look it up yourself. You need to do some research on this crime. Better yet, watch The Hunting Ground. Maybe that will help you understand victims. 

Duh  1)You keep saying that you didn't make it up,but I still haven't seen the source. 2)YOU need to do some research on this crime..As I said before it really doesn't matter if the percentage of the victims saying the truth is 50 or 70 or even 99 percent... We should try to help immidiately the victim but we can NOT be sure that anything happened without proof. You can't put someone on jail because of an accusation.. It's simple logic!You see it more emotionally and I totally understand your point that we should trust a victim that was rapped and feels horrible..But I use my logic,not only my emotions.. The first thing to do is comforting the victim and making him/her feel safe but then you have to learn if that really happened and search for evidence.

 

[Whispering 18,865]

3 hours ago, CurlyBae said:

Duh  1)You keep saying that you didn't make it up,but I still haven't seen the source. 2)YOU need to do some research on this crime..As I said before it really doesn't matter if the percentage of the victims saying the truth is 50 or 70 or even 99 percent... We should try to help immidiately the victim but we can NOT be sure that anything happened without proof. You can't put someone on jail because of an accusation.. It's simple logic!You see it more emotionally and I totally understand your point that we should trust a victim that was rapped and feels horrible..But I use my logic,not only my emotions.. The first thing to do is comforting the victim and making him/her feel safe but then you have to learn if that really happened and search for evidence.

 

Look up the FBI statistcs, look up what The White House reported. 

No one is jailing anyone here. Your statement is that it would be "stupid NOT to trust them" (the victims). That was the issue, always has been. 

[Fiona Apple 13,006]

5 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Look up the FBI statistcs, look up what The White House reported. 

No one is jailing anyone here. Your statement is that it would be "stupid NOT to trust them" (the victims). That was the issue, always has been. 

Yeah because by trusting the victims without any evidence (because when someone gets rapped there are ALWAYS evidence),someone will go to jail. This is the RESULT of trusting people without evidence.... It's weird that you actually don't understand it.. My statement is that "it's stupid to take as a fact that they were rapped without evidence"

[Whispering 18,865]

1 minute ago, CurlyBae said:

Yeah because by trusting the victims without any evidence (because when someone gets rapped there are ALWAYS evidence),someone will go to jail. This is the RESULT of trusting people without evidence.... It's weird that you actually don't understand it.. My statement is that "it's stupid to take as a fact that they were rapped without evidence"

No, most cases aren't even prosecuted. In fact, most cases stent even reported to the police or authorities. When they are, a rape kit is done that sets on a shelf for twenty or more years and the crime isn't taken to court. 

There is evidence that sex occurred, not that there was a rape. Therefore, it becomes a he said, she said or he said, he said or she said, she said situation. There aren't witnesses and the evidence says that the victim had sex with the person and that's all. Even if it is by a complete stranger (which it is in only twenty per cent of the cases), and a rape kit is done, the chances that the rape kit will sit on a shelf and the victim won't get their day in court is high. 

That's why this evidence thing you are holding onto so much doesn't make sense. This is a crime that often doesn't have evidence, but it has victims. I trust rape victims without evidence, because there is rarely evidence that would be held up in court anyhow. I'm not going to go around doubting victims, when 95 per cent plus are to be trusted, just because I didn't witness the crime. 

[Fiona Apple 13,006]

11 minutes ago, Whispering said:

No, most cases aren't even prosecuted. In fact, most cases stent even reported to the police or authorities. When they are, a rape kit is done that sets on a shelf for twenty or more years and the crime isn't taken to court. 

There is evidence that sex occurred, not that there was a rape. Therefore, it becomes a he said, she said or he said, he said or she said, she said situation. There aren't witnesses and the evidence says that the victim had sex with the person and that's all. Even if it is by a complete stranger (which it is in only twenty per cent of the cases), and a rape kit is done, the chances that the rape kit will sit on a shelf and the victim won't get their day in court is high. 

That's why this evidence thing you are holding onto so much doesn't make sense. This is a crime that often doesn't have evidence, but it has victims. I trust rape victims without evidence, because there is rarely evidence that would be held up in court anyhow. I'm not going to go around doubting victims, when 95 per cent plus are to be trusted, just because I didn't witness the crime. 

Well at least the evidence that sex occurred is a first step and actually they can understand if the sex was violent or not. Btw I only know one person that said that she got rapped and she actually lied about it. Obviously in most occassions that doesn't happen but it's obvious that this happens a lot of times. 

Anyway I respect your opinion 

[Whispering 18,865]

9 minutes ago, CurlyBae said:

Well at least the evidence that sex occurred is a first step and actually they can understand if the sex was violent or not. Btw I only know one person that said that she got rapped and she actually lied about it. Obviously in most occassions that doesn't happen but it's obvious that this happens a lot of times. 

Anyway I respect your opinion 

It can happen, but two to eight per cent is not "a lot". 

I know or know of at least a dozen people who have been victims of rape (two of attempted rape) and even more who were victims of sexual assault as a child. Only one of these cases has gone to court and it is because the guy slit her throat and tried to kill her. 

I believe every single victim that I know. I don't need to see evidence. They have suffered greatly with the aftermath, a couple of them dropped out of college, one attempted suicide, every one of them had scars for life. 

Have you watched The Hunting Ground? 

[Fiona Apple 13,006]

Just now, Whispering said:

I know or know of at least a dozen people who have been victims of rape (two of attempted rape) and even more who were victims of sexual assault as a child. Only one of these cases has gone to court and it is because the guy slit her throat and tried to kill her. 

I believe every single victim that I know. I don't need to see evidence. They have suffered greatly with the aftermath, a couple of them dropped out of college, one attempted suicide, every one of them had scars for life. 

Have you watched The Hunting Ground? 

It's different if you know them personally. If you do and they are sane and nice ,you are obviously going to believe them. I was talking from a court perspective

[VOLANTIS 16,009]

Honestly don't believe that any Producer I'd like Gaga to work with would label her as a Fool for sticking up for a girl who claims she's been raped. 

[Whispering 18,865]

1 minute ago, CurlyBae said:

It's different if you know them personally. If you do and they are sane and nice ,you are obviously going to believe them. I was talking from a court perspective

We aren't a court here on GGD. 

Have you watched The Hunting Ground? 

[Fiona Apple 13,006]

Just now, Whispering said:

We aren't a court here on GGD. 

Have you watched The Hunting Ground? 

Not really.Don't have time for movies tbh

[Whispering 18,865]

1 minute ago, CurlyBae said:

Not really.Don't have time for movies tbh

But you are on here discussing this subject, that takes time. Since you don't know of people who have been raped and don't have much experience with the subject, but have such strong opinions on it, doesn't it make sense to learn about it? 

 The movie is full of statistics and facts and explains how the justice system works against the victim. Since you don't want to read and research, a movie might be a better option. You can get something out of just watching thirty minutes of the movie. You've spent that much time here discussing rape...why not spend that much time learning about it? 

[Fiona Apple 13,006]

2 minutes ago, Whispering said:

But you are on here discussing this subject, that takes time. Since you don't know of people who have been raped and don't have much experience with the subject, but have such strong opinions on it, doesn't it make sense to learn about it? 

 The movie is full of statistics and facts and explains how the justice system works against the victim. Since you don't want to read and research, a movie might be a better option. You can get something out of just watching thirty minutes of the movie. You've spent that much time here discussing rape...why not spend that much time learning about it? 

It takes 1 minute to write you an answer darling. I am studying the whole day  I still believe in my opinion which is based on logic. 

[Whispering 18,865]

Just now, CurlyBae said:

It takes 1 minute to write you an answer darling. I am studying the whole day  I still believe in my opinion which is based on logic. 

You have thousands of comments on this site.

Your opinion is based on knowing ONE person who has claimed to be raped. Your opinion isn't based on facts, statistics or reading and research. That's not logic. 

You don't have to watch it today or even this week, just sometime give thirty minutes to watching the first part. 

 

[Fiona Apple 13,006]

12 minutes ago, Whispering said:

You have thousands of comments on this site.

Your opinion is based on knowing ONE person who has claimed to be raped. Your opinion isn't based on facts, statistics or reading and research. That's not logic. 

You don't have to watch it today or even this week, just sometime give thirty minutes to watching the first part. 

 

It's not based on that person dude.It is just an example  And actually I only use GGD when I stop studying .

I am just being more objective than you.That's all... I am talking about how the victims should be treated from the court/country/laws. They should be taken care of but shouldn't be trusted for no reason.As I previously stated it's obvious that you will believe a person that you know ,if he tells you that he got rapped.That's a different thing