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Gaga should be extra careful about the Kesha case


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boysboysboys
Just now, Whispering said:

It is actually "stupid" to doubt the victim. Only about 2% of all rape and related sex charges are determined to be false, the same percentage as for other felonies.

It could be a false accusation, but what seems stupid is to jump to doubting the victim when 98 per cent of the times it is a truthful accusation. 

No matter how small, nobody should ever jump the gun and accuse the suspect. There is due process!

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Whispering
2 minutes ago, boysboysboys said:

No matter how small, nobody should ever jump the gun and accuse the suspect. There is due process!

We aren't talking about a court of law here. We are talking about believing people when they tell you they have been raped, sexually assaulted, abused, etc. It isn't "stupid" to believe people when they tell you a crime has been committed against them. 

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Fiona Apple
12 minutes ago, Whispering said:

It is actually "stupid" to doubt the victim. Only about 2% of all rape and related sex charges are determined to be false, the same percentage as for other felonies.

It could be a false accusation, but what seems stupid is to jump to doubting the victim when 98 per cent of the times it is a truthful accusation. 

Actually it doesn't matter how small the percentage is.. There are actually people that WENT TO JAIL and they didn't do ANYTHING..!

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UmbriaWitch

She's not vilifying Dr. Luke, but supporting Kesha, therefore even if Kesha's claims are revealed to be false, then all she was doing was speaking up.

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Whispering
25 minutes ago, CurlyBae said:

Actually it doesn't matter how small the percentage is.. There are actually people that WENT TO JAIL and they didn't do ANYTHING..!

That is possibly true, but the large majority of these crimes never even go to court. Over 95 per cent of the rapes on college campuses aren't treated as crimes. There are hundreds of thousands of untested rape kits that set on shelves, some up to twenty years old or older. Looking at the fact that the courts won't even prosecute rapists when they have DNA evidence, the instances of innocent people sitting in jail is a very, very minuscule amount when compared to the thousands upon thousands of perpetrators who are allowed to be out in the public raping multiple people. 

Is it stupid to believe these hundreds of thousands of people who have rape kits sitting on shelves until they can "prove it"? Is it stupid to believe that Gaga was raped at 19 or that Diane Warren was sexually molested at age 12, because they can't prove it? In cases such as these, I'm going to remember that 98 per cent of these people are telling the truth! Yet, for some reason, we treat them like 90 per cent of them are lying. Why do you think that is? 

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Fiona Apple
1 minute ago, Whispering said:

That is possibly true, but the large majority of these crimes never even go to court. Over 95 per cent of the rapes on college campuses aren't treated as crimes. There are hundreds of thousands of untested rape kits that set on shelves, some up to twenty years old or older. Looking at the fact that the courts won't even prosecute rapists when they have DNA evidence, the instances of innocent people sitting in jail is a very, very minuscule amount when compared to the thousands upon thousands of perpetrators who are allowed to be out in the public raping multiple people. 

Is it stupid to believe these hundreds of thousands of people who have rape kits sitting on shelves until they can "prove it"? Is it stupid to believe that Gaga was raped at 19 or that Diane Warren was sexually molested at age 12, because they can't prove it? In cases such as these, I'm going to remember that 98 per cent of these people are telling the truth! Yet, for some reason, we treat them like 90 per cent of them are lying. Why do you think that is? 

Umm even if it the 99,99999999% of the people were saying the truth,you should still need evidence to put someone on jail... Actually nowadays the courts put people in the jail even with very small evidence so your example is not true at all.... I never said I don't believe Gaga,Kesha or Diane ,I said that we can't be sure about anything without evidence.. It's simple. Btw where did you get that 98% from? It could be true but I want to see a source or something :) 

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Whispering
45 minutes ago, CurlyBae said:

Umm even if it the 99,99999999% of the people were saying the truth,you should still need evidence to put someone on jail... Actually nowadays the courts put people in the jail even with very small evidence so your example is not true at all.... I never said I don't believe Gaga,Kesha or Diane ,I said that we can't be sure about anything without evidence.. It's simple. Btw where did you get that 98% from? It could be true but I want to see a source or something  

Once again, we weren't talking about being the judge and jury here and putting someone in jail. We are talking about believing the victim. Your statement was that is was "stupid to not doubt the victim." Given that 98 per cent of them are telling the truth, it is stupid to automatically doubt them. Also, you stated that,  "It's known that A LOT of women actually lie about these things!" Number one, it isn't just women who are raped. You need to include men, boys and girls. Number two, what is known is that MOST, by an overwhelming percentage, are telling the truth. 

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Fiona Apple
25 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Once again, we weren't talking about being the judge and jury here and putting someone in jail. We are talking about believing the victim. Your statement was that is was "stupid to not doubt the victim." Given that 98 per cent of them are telling the truth, it is stupid to automatically doubt them. Also, you stated that,  "It's known that A LOT of women actually lie about these things!" Number one, it isn't just women who are raped. You need to include men, boys and girls. Number two, what is known is that MOST, by an overwhelming percentage, are telling the truth. 

1)Children wouldn't lie about stuff like that.So yeah it's mostly women..At least the 99+ % of them 2)Still need a source or something.Because you clearly said 98% so you probably base it on something

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Whispering
Just now, CurlyBae said:

1)Children wouldn't lie about stuff like that.So yeah it's mostly women..At least the 99+ % of them 2)Still need a source or something.Because you clearly said 98% so you probably base it on something

1) Children do lie and they have, but like adults, it is a small percentage. 

15% of rape and sexual assault victims are under the age of 12. 

From 1995-2010, 9% of rape and sexual assault victims were male.10

2.78 million men in the US have been victims of rape. 

So, yes, there are children and men who are victims and women are not 99% of the victims. 

2) Look it up. The FBI says 6 to 8 per cent, but that includes cases that are considered unprovable or baseless, which could mean anything from the victim dropping the case to the victim being severely mentally ill, or so drugged by date drugs that they barely remember anything. The reported to police accusation that is outright false is report at two per cent. 

 

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VenusBlackStar

I don't see how Gaga will all of a sudden start getting negativity for supporting a fellow female artist who is going through a lot of rough stuff. It's not Gaga's case and we should be more concerned about Kesha in this instance. Gaga's being a good human being to another human being.

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Fiona Apple
26 minutes ago, Whispering said:

1) Children do lie and they have, but like adults, it is a small percentage. 

15% of rape and sexual assault victims are under the age of 12. 

From 1995-2010, 9% of rape and sexual assault victims were male.10

2.78 million men in the US have been victims of rape. 

So, yes, there are children and men who are victims and women are not 99% of the victims. 

2) Look it up. The FBI says 6 to 8 per cent, but that includes cases that are considered unprovable or baseless, which could mean anything from the victim dropping the case to the victim being severely mentally ill, or so drugged by date drugs that they barely remember anything. The reported to police accusation that is outright false is report at two per cent. 

 

I actually mentioned women because we were talking about women atm. I never said that children do not get raped so I don't even know why you talk about that...Well so you actually say that this "98%" is made from your imagination.. It's not that important obvi.But I really dislike it when people just say things like they are "facts" but they actually make them up...  I do think that people should get some support when they say they got rapped (firstly it doesn't matter if they lie or not)..But NEVER win a court case without evidence.

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Whispering
10 minutes ago, CurlyBae said:

I actually mentioned women because we were talking about women atm. I never said that children do not get raped so I don't even know why you talk about that...Well so you actually say that this "98%" is made from your imagination.. It's not that important obvi.But I really dislike it when people just say things like they are "facts" but they actually make them up...  I do think that people should get some support when they say they got rapped (firstly it doesn't matter if they lie or not)..But NEVER win a court case without evidence.

The reason why I gave you numbers of men and children is because you said it was 99 per cent women...and that is completely inaccurate. 

No, the two per cent is reported by crime statistics snd studies. The White House used that statistic in a discussion about rapes on college campuses. The FBI uses 5 to 8 per cent, but that includes baseless cases...meaning cases that were dropped or by mentally ill or people who were drugged. 

 I didn't make up the statistics I quoted, but you have been making yours up. 

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Fiona Apple
Just now, Whispering said:

The reason why I gave you numbers of men and children is because you said it was 99 per cent women...and that is completely inaccurate. 

No, the two per cent is reported by crime statistics snd studies. The White House used that statistic when addressing rapes on campuses. The FBI uses 5 to 8 per cent, but that includes baseless cases...meaning cases that were dropped or by mentally ill or people who were drugged. 

Can you not read or not comprehend, because the above information is exactly what I stated in my comment before. I didn't make up the statistics I quoted, but you have been making yours up. 

It was indeed inaccurate.I pretty much meant that it's mostly women that get rapped and that was very obvious because I didn't state it was a fact.

Well send me a link from those crime statistics and studies.It would be helpful because you still didn't show me the 98% thing..:emma: So yeah you clearly did make this up. 

Anyway it got pretty pointless so we could stop that here if you agree

 

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Whispering
Just now, CurlyBae said:

It was indeed inaccurate.I pretty much meant that it's mostly women that get rapped and that was very obvious because I didn't state it was a fact.

Well send me a link from those crime statistics and studies.It would be helpful because you still didn't show me the 98% thing..:emma: So yeah you clearly did make this up. 

Anyway it got pretty pointless so we could stop that here if you agree

 

99 per cent is not the same as 75 per cent. 

No, I didn't make it up, but I get the feeling I'm talking to a young teen. Look it up yourself. You need to do some research on this crime. Better yet, watch The Hunting Ground. Maybe that will help you understand victims. 

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