How many of you really think ARTPOP is Gaga's weakest release?

[danwasd 2,444]

As BTW it's so overrated, I must say ARTPOP it's my favourite album

[trutheverafter 127]

For me it's BTW>TFM=ARTPOP>TF

[BrooklynNights 1]

for me it's ARTPOP > BTW > TFM > TF. She keeps getting better with every album

[Bambino 23,630]

I no longer know what kind of problem people have with ARTPOP. Musically, it's not her weakest album, but visually, commercially and era-wise, it's not her best. It could've done better but the way it was presented and promoted didn't help.

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

The ARTPOP lyrics, especially the ones that you pointed out, are some of my favorites. I don't think they sound jumbled at all, I can't even address that. A mouthful, sometimes, but that's not necessarily a criticism for me, in this case.

 

I prefer Gaga when she goes big, and nothing from The Fame, in particular, was a stand out to me. Even the more acclaimed tracks have a simple, three or four-chord major/minor structure that is disappointing for someone who has trained in piano her whole life. Meanwhile, "GUY", "Mary Jane", "Gypsy", and plenty of others from this last album have a far more elaborate and playful scan, they have more depth (both the melodies and the production scope), and there are specific lyrical stanzas that are (imho) far more cleverly phrased and timed than the "half-psychotic" and the "disco stick" line. The pre-chorus in "GUY" trumps almost anything on The Fame, imo.

 

Overall, BTW and AP are more explosive and experimental, even at the risk of taking a bit longer for the choruses and melodies to stick. Which I'm 100% okay with, I think that's where the real "meat" is. Whereas the first two albums felt rather constricted to me, with a few exceptions. Almost as if, before the songs really went to that next level, she would just repeat the chorus two more times and end it.

I sort of see your point but I think what you're saying applies way more to BTW than it does to AP. AP doesn't really have any songs that defy the more constrictive structure of a commercial dance pop song. Aura and Swine are the obvious exceptions, and Jewels n Drugs cause it's a rap song, but what else? Mary Jane Holland has the exact same structure as Poker Face:

 

Short instrumental intro

Verse 1

Pre-chorus

Chorus

Post-chorus repeating of the title

Verse 2

Pre-chorus

Chorus

Post-chorus repeating of the title

Bridge

Chorus

 

The only difference is that with Poker Face she repeats the chorus 3x at the end whereas she only repeats it once with MJH, but that's not really an issue since it's a chorus that's worth repeating. And the above applies to every song on ARTPOP except the three I listed. Born This Way has 5-6 minute epics like Marry the Night and Hair that really feel liberated structurally, with really dynamic production. But I'm not seeing that on AP, it's the exact same type of music that she made on TF/M but imo it's just not as catchy or clever. You're right that the production is more explosive on some songs, but it's like she traded explosive choruses for explosive production and I don't think that's a trade-off that worked particularly well here.

[djBuffoon 11,640]

The only difference is that with Poker Face she repeats the chorus 3x at the end whereas she only repeats it once with MJH, but that's not really an issue since it's a chorus that's worth repeating. And the above applies to every song on ARTPOP except the three I listed. Born This Way has 5-6 minute epics like Marry the Night and Hair that really feel liberated structurally, with really dynamic production. But I'm not seeing that on AP, it's the exact same type of music that she made on TF/M but imo it's just not as catchy or clever. You're right that the production is more explosive on some songs, but it's like she traded explosive choruses for explosive production and I don't think that's a trade-off that worked particularly well here.

Overall, I feel like where many things on the first two albums were a bit truncated, here she allowed herself to go farther, and indulge a bit more while still servicing the music.

 

Comparing "GUY" and "LoveGame" for example. The vast majority of the latter is switching back and forth between C-minor and F-minor throughout. But in the pre-chorus for the former alone, there is a classical piano segue that bursts through the heavy bass line from the verses. Speaking of which, Gaga is famous for those insidious bass lines, and "LoveGame" is no exception, but I appreciate "GUY"s more because, again, I find it more elaborate and exciting. I've tried to learn each of her songs on piano, and they get progressively more difficult with each album, so that's my point of reference right there.

 

And yes, Born This Way had more 5min+ songs, but I think these felt equally as liberated, but in a more economic way. The AP tracks cut right to the chase, and there is no fat on the album. Like I said before, it's also in the sound and in the scope of the production. On "Sexxx Dreams", "Mary Jane", "ARTPOP", "Aura", "Venus" and numerous others, the seconds verses are more sonically expansive than the first, whereas on TF and TFM, what you heard in the first 45 seconds was pretty much what you got throughout the rest of the song. Also, more imaginative chord progressions ("MJH" pre-chorus) and literally dozens of really cool musical touches that stand out immediately (the slap bass in "Sexxx Dreams", those cuttingly deep synths on "MJH" "Swine" and "Donatella", the folksy guitars on "Venus" and "Gypsy", the flamboyant piano on "Fashion!", the percussive keyboard arrangement on "Applause", the sassy guitar riffs on "MANiCURE").

 

I could go on and on. And it still manages to be catchy, but because there are more lyrics and more melodic shifts than usual with her, it takes a little longer to stick. Which I fully appreciate, some of my favorite songs ever I didn't retain on my first listen. And to be honest, even before Swinefest, most of us had already gotten the melodies in our heads from those rehearsal videos. She still instinctively knows how to write a catchy melody. I don't understand how an attentive listener could hear most of these songs and not get at least the chorus the first time out.

 

I got a little carried away. Hopefully

any of this makes sense.

[Jee Yew Whai 1]

ARTPOP was like a baby separated at a young age. it needed to be nurtured to reach it's full potential.

 

and tbh, if it did well, you all would be bowing down to the glory of ARTPOP.

 

[jeffswiss 1]

Overall, I feel like where many things on the first two albums were a bit truncated, here she allowed herself to go farther, and indulge a bit more while still servicing the music.

Comparing "GUY" and "LoveGame" for example. The vast majority of the latter is switching back and forth between C-minor and F-minor throughout. But in the pre-chorus for the former alone, there is a classical piano segue that bursts through the heavy bass line from the verses. Speaking of which, Gaga is famous for those insidious bass lines, and "LoveGame" is no exception, but I appreciate "GUY"s more because, again, I find it more elaborate and exciting. I've tried to learn each of her songs on piano, and they get progressively more difficult with each album, so that's my point of reference right there.

And yes, Born This Way had more 5min+ songs, but I think these felt equally as liberated, but in a more economic way. The AP tracks cut right to the chase, and there is no fat on the album. Like I said before, it's also in the sound and in the scope of the production. On "Sexxx Dreams", "Mary Jane", "ARTPOP", "Aura", "Venus" and numerous others, the seconds verses are more sonically expansive than the first, whereas on TF and TFM, what you heard in the first 45 seconds was pretty much what you got throughout the rest of the song. Also, more imaginative chord progressions ("MJH" pre-chorus) and literally dozens of really cool musical touches that stand out immediately (the slap bass in "Sexxx Dreams", those cuttingly deep synths on "MJH" "Swine" and "Donatella", the folksy guitars on "Venus" and "Gypsy", the flamboyant piano on "Fashion!", the percussive keyboard arrangement on "Applause", the sassy guitar riffs on "MANiCURE").

I could go on and on. And it still manages to be catchy, but because there are more lyrics and more melodic shifts than usual with her, it takes a little longer to stick. Which I fully appreciate, some of my favorite songs ever I didn't retain on my first listen. And to be honest, even before Swinefest, most of us had already gotten the melodies in our heads from those rehearsal videos. She still instinctively knows how to write a catchy melody. I don't understand how an attentive listener could hear most of these songs and not get at least the chorus the first time out.

I got a little carried away. Hopefully

any of this makes sense.

I agree!! Music I hear and love the first time, I now know as a mature adult, tends to also get old and die just as fast as it came onto the scene!!

[XoXoJoanneGaga 629]

I got a little carried away. Hopefully

any of this makes sense.

Yea it makes sense, but when you get down to the little details like key changes and bass lines then it's all just personal preference. Like I was just listening to Monster and it has pretty much the same slap bass that you mentioned in Sexxx Dreams. But regardless these are minor details. The fact remains that it's the same style of music only more production heavy and less immediate/explosive melodically.

 

I do agree that it manages to be catchy in it's own way, that there are melodies throughout the songs that worm their way into your head, but it still just doesn't compare to the explosive, emotional melodies of songs like Paparazzi or Bad Romance, or Dance in the Dark, or Marry the Night. The music in general just feels less important, like the lyrics are mostly based around wordplay and there isn't much of import being said, the choruses don't demand your attention and on some songs take a backseat to the production, and the production itself has great individual elements like the ones you pointed out but I still feel like it doesn't suck you in as much as her previous productions.

 

I think the two songs you were talking about (Mary Jane and G.U.Y.) are actually the two best instrumentals on the album along with DWUW and Applause, but with those two songs I feel like Gaga adds almost nothing and I could get pretty much the same experience by listening to the instrumentals where I'd be able to hear the stems better. But there's definitely elements of greatness there that get me to revisit it every now and then, but I never come away from the album feeling satisfied. It's her only album to me that doesn't feel like an open and shut book, as in the full story was told and everything that she was aiming for was accomplished.

[djBuffoon 11,640]

But there's definitely elements of greatness there that get me to revisit it every now and then, but I never come away from the album feeling satisfied. It's her only album to me that doesn't feel like an open and shut book, as in the full story was told and everything that she was aiming for was accomplished.

Yeah I don't think chord progressions and the musical elements I referred to are minor details at all, but yes, it comes down to personal preference. In the end, I found more in Born This Way and especially ARTPOP to chew on then her earlier work. It takes a little longer to digest, but fully demands my attention throughout and ends up being more satisfying in the long run.

 

In direct opposition to your closing, it is the only album of hers where I felt an actual narrative was taking place. Each song flows into the next, and contributes to the overall theme, although it's not as obvious as she has been in the past. This one left me with more to think about, and the songs are many of her most meticulous and impressive so far.

 

Good talk!

[wahkeenasitka 1,965]

I think the REAL question is... when will Little Monsters stop posting threads about how good or bad ARTPOP is... 

[Dan the Gaga Stan 9]

For me it's ARTPOP>BTW>TFM>TF. I love all her albums but I love ARTPOP the most at the moment.

TBH ARTPOP and BTW are at a similar level. I love most tracks off The Fame however as TFM has less songs, all of which are really strong and great in each way TFM wins over TF (although the best of TF is as good as TFM for me)

I do genuinely love all her albums but I just love her evolution as an artist and each album is special to me for different ways. Lately I have been listening to ARTPOP much more often as its newer and fresher but when I go back to nostalgia (as its for geeks) and her past albums I fall in love with them again.

[Benji 20,113]

I think the REAL question is... when will Little Monsters stop posting threads about how good or bad ARTPOP is... 

 

When everyone accepts that the album was in no way a "flop" and others accept that some people genuinely disliked the album because of it's contents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So never

 

[Tropico 4,145]

God no. ARTPOP is her best if you ask me.