Azealia Banks Collaborator, Ariel Pink, asked to work with Madonna

[Computer 10,966]

Madonna may have a reputation for using others to her own advantage or being a "b---h," but she will put her own career and the success of the album ahead of any hurt feelings about his (stupid) comments.  

[Hexxx 2,244]

Madonna may have a reputation for using others to her own advantage or being a "b---h," but she will put her own career and the success of the album ahead of any hurt feelings about his (stupid) comments.

you better tell 'em

[SKANK 14,288]

Wait Koons himself didn't actually help at all? It was his team? source? this is very interesting, i always thought it was the work of him solely 

 

 

I have no doubt that it was his creative vision, but Koons has a team of over 100 artists and craftspeople who work for him. I haven't seen anything specifically written about how the ARTPOP album cover was made, but it's my understanding that his involvement is minimal when it comes to psyhically creating his art.

 

But again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

Ottmann: How far are you involved in the actual production of your work?

Koons: I’m basically the idea person. I’m not physically involved in the production. I don’t have the necessary abilities...

Koon's and Madonna are both the creative forces behind a collection of talented individuals. In my opinion it is no more offensive for Madonna to take the credit for her albums then it is for Koons to take credit for his exhibitions. They are the puppeteers.

It's not the same. Music and visual art have different creative processes.

Koons DESIGNED the cover, people may have helped him making the sculpture but he designed the cover, he is the creative mind.

Madonna (in some songs) only records her vocals. Other artists write the lyrics, produce the songs and create the melodies. She is the executive producer, not the creative mind. Changing a few things is not enough to be a writer, it's just co-writing.

[SKANK 14,288]

It's not the same. Music and visual art have different creative processes.

Koons DESIGNED the cover, people may have helped him making the sculpture but he designed the cover, he is the creative mind.

Madonna (in some songs) only records her vocals. Other artists write the lyrics, produce the songs and create the melodies. She is the executive producer, not the creative mind. Changing a few things is not enough to be a writer, it's just co-writing.

 

 

Changing a few things is not enough? Guess no one ever told Jeff Koons that.

 

 

 

 

"We take a tour around his studio, in preparation for the photographs. Koons is talking all the way, stopping to discuss concerns with artists. He runs his 120-strong team as a tight ship. The rooms are silent; each artist wears headphones, but only in one ear. If their name is called, it is whipped out immediately….."They know what I’m looking for,†says Koons, when we’ve finished our tour, “and every day I go back through the work that’s been done, if something’s off, I’ll find it.†He likens his supervisory role to a film producer…."

[DrewStevens 5,249]

Changing a few things is not enough? Guess no one ever told Jeff Koons that.

 

 

 

 

"We take a tour around his studio, in preparation for the photographs. Koons is talking all the way, stopping to discuss concerns with artists. He runs his 120-strong team as a tight ship. The rooms are silent; each artist wears headphones, but only in one ear. If their name is called, it is whipped out immediately….."They know what I’m looking for,†says Koons, when we’ve finished our tour, “and every day I go back through the work that’s been done, if something’s off, I’ll find it.†He likens his supervisory role to a film producer…."

 

Jeff Koons has a studio like many other designers. 

 

"They know what I’m looking for,†says Koons, when we’ve finished our tour, “and every day I go back through the work that’s been done, if something’s off, I’ll find it.†He likens his supervisory role to a film producer…."

 

He is open and honest about his creative process. He even says "the work that’s been done" and not "the work that I've done".

 

Madonna credits herself as main songwriter when she isn't. Other artists write her songs and then she changes some things. I'm not saying she is not part of it, just saying she is not as involved as she says she is. I believe she is the creative mind behind her show and her imagery, but her music is usually 10% Madonna and 90% other people (considering her vocals).

 

Comparing Koons and Madonna is pointless. Visual arts and performing arts have different components and processes. 

[SKANK 14,288]

Jeff Koons has a studio like many other designers. 

 

 

He is open and honest about his creative process. He even says "the work that’s been done" and not "the work that I've done".

 

Madonna credits herself as main songwriter when she isn't. Other artists write her songs and then she changes some things. I'm not saying she is not part of it, just saying she is not as involved as she says she is. I believe she is the creative mind behind her show and her imagery, but her music is usually 10% Madonna and 90% other people (considering her vocals).

 

Comparing Koons and Madonna is pointless. Visual arts and performing arts have different components and processes. 

 

 

Koons enlists artists to create sculptures for him because he can't do it himself. Then he slaps his name on the project the sculptures are involved in. Madonna enlists artists to write songs for her because she can't do it herself. Then she slaps her name on the project the songs are involved in. 

 

They both enjoy the millions of dollars and fame earned from their art, while the craftspeople behind their work go unnoticed. The same can be said with nearly every artist operating at their level of success. If you resent Madonna for doing it then you have to think less of Koons for doing it as well. 

[7Days 7]

Did I say it was wrong? I only said that she is well known by putting her name as songwriter in songs she doesn't write. 

 

And it's not the same with Jeff Koons. Koons is the designer of the ARTPOP cover, he designed the album cover. Madonna is not the writter of some of her songs but she still appears as a writer. Koons uses his artistic talent, Madonna uses her business skills. 

 

are you saying Madonna doesn't write her music?

[DrewStevens 5,249]

Koons enlists artists to create sculptures for him because he can't do it himself. Then he slaps his name on the project the sculptures are involved in. Madonna enlists artists to write songs for her because she can't do it herself. Then she slaps her name on the project the songs are involved in. 

 

They both enjoy the millions of dollars and fame earned from their art, while the craftspeople behind their work go unnoticed. The same can be said with nearly every artist operating at their level of success. If you resent Madonna for doing it then you have to think less of Koons for doing it as well. 

 

Still not the same. 

 

Koons DESIGNS, he may not SCULPT by himself. That's why he is the artists, because he designs. 

 

Madonna SINGS. She doesn't write all of her songs still she is credited as a songwriter, but she is just the executive producer. She should be credited as a producer, not as a songwriter.

 

Better compare Rihanna, who is a successful artist, with Madonna. Rihanna doesn't write her songs either and she is, fairly, not credited as a writer, yet she is credited as executive producer of her album because she was part of the team. There's no need to put their names as songwriters when they still have their names in the title of the song. 

 

Anyway, just because someone else does it (in this case Koons) doesn't mean is good. This discussion is pointless. 

are you saying Madonna doesn't write her music?

 

Not all her songs, but most of her songs have been written by other people. It has been proven many times.

[7Days 7]

Still not the same. 

 

Koons DESIGNS, he may not SCULPT by himself. That's why he is the artists, because he designs. 

 

Madonna SINGS. She doesn't write all of her songs still she is credited as a songwriter, but she is just the executive producer. She should be credited as a producer, not as a songwriter.

 

Better compare Rihanna, who is a successful artist, with Madonna. Rihanna doesn't write her songs either and she is, fairly, not credited as a writer, yet she is credited as executive producer of her album because she was part of the team. There's no need to put their names as songwriters when they still have their names in the title of the song. 

 

Anyway, just because someone else does it (in this case Koons) doesn't mean is good. This discussion is pointless. 

 

Not all her songs, but most of her songs have been written by other people. It has been proven many times.

The only songs she didn't write that comes in my mind are:

Lucky Star

Borderline

Holiday

Material Girl

Like A Virgin

Dress You Up

Papa Don't Preach (she co-wrote it)

 

she wrote all her other songs tho. And proven by who? little monsters? 

[SKANK 14,288]

Still not the same. 

 

Koons DESIGNS, he may not SCULPT by himself. That's why he is the artists, because he designs. 

 

Madonna SINGS. She doesn't write all of her songs still she is credited as a songwriter, but she is just the executive producer. She should be credited as a producer, not as a songwriter.

 

Better compare Rihanna, who is a successful artist, with Madonna. Rihanna doesn't write her songs either and she is, fairly, not credited as a writer, yet she is credited as executive producer of her album because she was part of the team. There's no need to put their names as songwriters when they still have their names in the title of the song. 

 

Anyway, just because someone else does it (in this case Koons) doesn't mean is good. This discussion is pointless. 

 

 

 

 

So…it's not the same, but it is the same? 

 

You just happen to think Koons' kistch crap has a higher creative value then Madonna's wh0rey pop songs, so you excuse his process of delegating the actual creative work while critiquing her for doing the same thing. You are a snob and I'm a skank, the end.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

The only songs she didn't write that comes in my mind are:

Lucky Star

Borderline

Holiday

Material Girl

Like A Virgin

Dress You Up

Papa Don't Preach (she co-wrote it)

 

she wrote all her other songs tho. And proven by who? little monsters? 

 

Correction: She doesn't write all her songs, but still is credited in all of them.

 

Turn Up The Radio, Girl Gone Wild, Revolver... all of them supposedly written by Madonna, still their demos leaked and she is not the original singer.

 

I'm not saying she hasn't talent or that she has always been dishonest, but she has been dishonest about her songs more than once.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

So…it's not the same, but it is the same? 

 

You just happen to think Koons' kistch crap has a higher creative value then Madonna's wh0rey pop songs, so you excuse his process of delegating the actual creative work while critiquing her for doing the same thing. You are a snob and I'm a skank, the end.

 

Mmmm no, never said that. All this discussion started because you told me that 'there isn't anything wrong with that' but I never said it was wrong. Then you compared Koons, M.I.A. and Madonna. I never excused Koons, I said there was a difference between both situations because you compared them.

 

When I said "Anyway, just because someone else does it (in this case Koons) doesn't mean is good" was because you used him as an argument, not me.

 

I'm not a snob, you just don't know how to read properly. 

[7Days 7]

Correction: She doesn't write all her songs, but still is credited in all of them.

 

Turn Up The Radio, Girl Gone Wild, Revolver... all of them supposedly written by Madonna, still their demos leaked and she is not the original singer.

 

I'm not saying she hasn't talent or that she has always been dishonest, but she has been dishonest about her songs more than once.

 

you can't compare demos with the final versions, that's like you say Gaga didn't wrote Mary Jane Holland because of the demo that leaked. Turn Up The Radio demo has different lyrics and Girl Gone Wild is sung by Rosette during the recording session of MDNA. Idk about Revolver.

[DrewStevens 5,249]

you can't compare demos with the final versions, that's like you say Gaga didn't wrote Mary Jane Holland because of the demo that leaked. Turn Up The Radio demo has different lyrics and Girl Gone Wild is sung by Rosette during the recording session of MDNA. Idk about Revolver.

 

Mary Jane Holland wasn't Mary Jane Holland until she released it. The lyrics, the idea and the melody are different.

 

Rosette has worked with Benny many times and the leak recorded from Madonna's apartment is Rosette's version. Same situation with Revolver.

 

Why would an artist make another unknown singer sing their demos before them?