Justin Bieber - What Do You Mean? (Music Video + Lyric Video)

[Harry 26,836]

Both statements still stand. It was streaming that got him the achievement in the end. I'm not saying he's the only one with the advantage, but I am pointing out that the fact he couldn't get a #1 pre-streaming is pretty telling. The system means that some artists will look more popular than they actually are. After all, just because people are streamed the song doesn't mean they enjoyed it. Plus, the US includes YouTube/Vevo views into the bargain (including non-official uses of the song), so that makes it even easier. Basically, all the fans stream and refresh the hell out of the song and it can get to #1, meaning it's just the same group of people playing it on repeat, hardly a reflection of what the public at large want. And if the artist is small and doesn't have a lot of streaming power, they won't chart as high as they would have done in the past. In the UK charts, on the week that streaming counted for the first time, Nicole Scherzinger debuted at #6 and it emerged that her sales alone made her #3, but because she didn't have the streams, she got pushed down. So, you can see how streaming really benefits artists with young fanbases, like Justin's, 1D's, Taylor's, etc. who are all about streaming and are obsessive about it and will refresh over and over. The ones with older and less devoted fans don't stand a chance, meaning the young ones rule the charts. The streaming rule staves off "old" and "irrelevant" acts and whittles down the competition that the "young" "relevant" acts will face and it's unfair in that regard.

Nothing you are saying makes sense. I don't see how you think streaming being included in the Hot 100 represents popularity any less than radio, which is not controlled by the people and was an enormous factor before this incarnation. When Boyfriend debuted at #2, it sold nearly double of the song that beat it, but because of radio it missed out on the top spot. Is that fair to you? Cos I think if it was purchased more that week then it was more popular with people...

And, regardless, in this instance he once again also sold far more than anyone else last week, too. I can't wait for your attempt to downplay that. Don't even try it with the fan-base front loading excuse, because it's still riding high on iTunes charts worldwide and hasn't dropped once from the #1 spot in the US, a week and a half after it's release.

WDYM iTunes Positions in Kworb's 'major' countries (24 hour difference):
#1 United States (=)
#1 Australia (=)
#1 Brazil (=)
#1 Canada (=)
#1 Indonesia (=)
#1 New Zealand (=)
#1 South Africa (=)
#2 United Kingdom (=)
#2 Denmark (=)
#2 Ireland (=)
#2 Mexico (=)
#2 Netherlands (=)
#3 Turkey (=)
#4 India (=)
#4 Norway (=)
#6 Belgium (+1)
#7 Spain (+4)
#8 Italy (+1)
#9 Austria (=)
#9 France (+1)
#9 Germany (+1)
#10 Japan (+1)

12 days after the release... You still want to tell me that people don't enjoy this song and blame it's global success on fans obsessively streaming?

[StrawberryBlond 13,284]

Nothing you are saying makes sense. I don't see how you think streaming being included in the Hot 100 represents popularity any less than radio, which is not controlled by the people and was an enormous factor before this incarnation. When Boyfriend debuted at #2, it sold nearly double of the song that beat it, but because of radio it missed out on the top spot. Is that fair to you? Cos I think if it was purchased more that week then it was more popular with people...

And, regardless, in this instance he once again also sold far more than anyone else last week, too. I can't wait for your attempt to downplay that. Don't even try it with the fan-base front loading excuse, because it's still riding high on iTunes charts worldwide and hasn't dropped once from the #1 spot in the US, a week and a half after it's release.

WDYM iTunes Positions in Kworb's 'major' countries (24 hour difference):
#1 United States (=)
#1 Australia (=)
#1 Brazil (=)
#1 Canada (=)
#1 Indonesia (=)
#1 New Zealand (=)
#1 South Africa (=)
#2 United Kingdom (=)
#2 Denmark (=)
#2 Ireland (=)
#2 Mexico (=)
#2 Netherlands (=)
#3 Turkey (=)
#4 India (=)
#4 Norway (=)
#6 Belgium (+1)
#7 Spain (+4)
#8 Italy (+1)
#9 Austria (=)
#9 France (+1)
#9 Germany (+1)
#10 Japan (+1)

12 days after the release... You still want to tell me that people don't enjoy this song and blame it's global success on fans obsessively streaming?

I never supported radio making up a portion of the song's success either. I actually think it was the most preposterous thing about the US chart system. Luckily, in the UK, it was almost 100% sales based until recently. Just because a single is being played on radio means absolutely nothing and means the DJs control who's popular, not the music buying public. I think this is a big factor in why songs stay at #1 forever in the US and why Americans obsess so much over whether a song is radio friendly. So, now with radio play and streams and online views put together, it all amounts to who has the biggest fan army and music's about so much more than that.

I'm not pretending that I called it right. I'm just saying why it managed to debut at #1. Those top 4 countries listed are also some of the world's biggest music markets, by the way, so of course the song will have continued success in these regions. And in some of these other countries, you just need to sell peanuts to get a #1, so imagine how little you have to sell to get a top 10?

[Harry 26,836]

I never supported radio making up a portion of the song's success either. I actually think it was the most preposterous thing about the US chart system. Luckily, in the UK, it was almost 100% sales based until recently. Just because a single is being played on radio means absolutely nothing and means the DJs control who's popular, not the music buying public. I think this is a big factor in why songs stay at #1 forever in the US and why Americans obsess so much over whether a song is radio friendly. So, now with radio play and streams and online views put together, it all amounts to who has the biggest fan army and music's about so much more than that.

I'm not pretending that I called it right. I'm just saying why it managed to debut at #1. Those top 4 countries listed are also some of the world's biggest music markets, by the way, so of course the song will have continued success in these regions. And in some of these other countries, you just need to sell peanuts to get a #1, so imagine how little you have to sell to get a top 10?

"so of course the song will have continued success"... What point are you even trying to argue anymore? So people aren't enjoying it despite the fact it's still the number one selling song in the world? Is that what you're genuinely trying to argue?

[StrawberryBlond 13,284]

"so of course the song will have continued success"... What point are you even trying to argue anymore? So people aren't enjoying it despite the fact it's still the number one selling song in the world? Is that what you're genuinely trying to argue?

My point is that songs always sell more in the biggest music markets, so it's not much of an indication of how big a hit it is. It's all relative. For example, in the UK, you have to sell 600,000 copies to get a platinum single. In the Czech Republic, you only need to sell 1,000 (and 2,000 for diamond). Can you imagine how much of a hit a 600,000 selling single would be there? But in the UK, it's very common and lots happen every year. Same with albums - in the UK, to get a silver certified album, you have to sell 60,000. Silver certification is nothing and if your album sells this much in the UK, it's a flop. But in Bulgaria, you need to sell just 2,000 copies for a gold certification (they don't even have platinum). So, if an album sold 60,000 in Bulgaria, it would be a hit of epic proportions. To get a platinum album in the UK, you have to sell 300,000. In the US, albums by major artists debut with 300,000. Very few countries have a diamond certification, but here's a really wild comparison - in the US, you have to sell 10 million copies of your album to go diamond. In Croatia, it requires just 30,000. 

#1's are all relative. That's why I shake my head when fans post the list of itunes postions on the worldwide chart like it translates as a massive hit all over the world. What a #1 means depends on which country you're talking about. If it's not a major music market, it really doesn't mean much. Apparently, to get a #1 in Zimbabwe, you need to sell just 2 copies, give or take. I think they only have a top ten chart because of this, as do most countries where music doesn't sell well.

[Harry 26,836]

My point is that songs always sell more in the biggest music markets, so it's not much of an indication of how big a hit it is. It's all relative. For example, in the UK, you have to sell 600,000 copies to get a platinum single. In the Czech Republic, you only need to sell 1,000 (and 2,000 for diamond). Can you imagine how much of a hit a 600,000 selling single would be there? But in the UK, it's very common and lots happen every year. Same with albums - in the UK, to get a silver certified album, you have to sell 60,000. Silver certification is nothing and if your album sells this much in the UK, it's a flop. But in Bulgaria, you need to sell just 2,000 copies for a gold certification (they don't even have platinum). So, if an album sold 60,000 in Bulgaria, it would be a hit of epic proportions. To get a platinum album in the UK, you have to sell 300,000. In the US, albums by major artists debut with 300,000. Very few countries have a diamond certification, but here's a really wild comparison - in the US, you have to sell 10 million copies of your album to go diamond. In Croatia, it requires just 30,000. 

#1's are all relative. That's why I shake my head when fans post the list of itunes postions on the worldwide chart like it translates as a massive hit all over the world. What a #1 means depends on which country you're talking about. If it's not a major music market, it really doesn't mean much. Apparently, to get a #1 in Zimbabwe, you need to sell just 2 copies, give or take. I think they only have a top ten chart because of this, as do most countries where music doesn't sell well.

........ I'm aware of all that, but It doesn't matter how much it sells. I didn't give you a figure once. But the fact remains, if it's #1, it's selling more than any other song in the country. You understand that, yes? Your rambling about it being high in small countries doesn't take away from the fact that it's still high in the US, UK, Canada etc. You're absolutely correct that it's all relative, but just because a #1 song in, say, Croatia doesn't pull the same numbers as a UK #1, it's still a hit in Croatia...

I'm not sure if even you know what you're arguing at this point. You've outdone yourself here. All you go on about is number ones and now you're trying to discredit them simply because someone you said would never get one did just that only a week after your comment.

[StrawberryBlond 13,284]

........ I'm aware of all that, but It doesn't matter how much it sells. I didn't give you a figure once. But the fact remains, if it's #1, it's selling more than any other song in the country. You understand that, yes? Your rambling about it being high in small countries doesn't take away from the fact that it's still high in the US, UK, Canada etc. You're absolutely correct that it's all relative, but just because a #1 song in, say, Croatia doesn't pull the same numbers as a UK #1, it's still a hit in Croatia...

I'm not sure if even you know what you're arguing at this point. You've outdone yourself here. All you go on about is number ones and now you're trying to discredit them simply because someone you said would never get one did just that only a week after your comment.

I'm only going on it about it because you're going on about it. I admit I got it wrong. What more is there to say? You have nothing more to argue, you've proved your point. But by going on about it, you're forcing me to defend myself. Your fave is at #1, you've won, I've lost. You didn't need to send me that link to the chart celebrating his #1, you did it for no other reason but to gloat. And I have a very low tolerance for gloating, so naturally, I defended myself in the face of your gloating. You wanted a reaction and then complained when you got one.

[Harry 26,836]

I'm only going on it about it because you're going on about it. I admit I got it wrong. What more is there to say? You have nothing more to argue, you've proved your point. But by going on about it, you're forcing me to defend myself. Your fave is at #1, you've won, I've lost. You didn't need to send me that link to the chart celebrating his #1, you did it for no other reason but to gloat. And I have a very low tolerance for gloating, so naturally, I defended myself in the face of your gloating. You wanted a reaction and then complained when you got one.

He's not even my fave It's just that we aren't all bias. I know it's tough for you to understand that.

Why would you need to defend yourself? You admitted you were wrong in your prediction but then you went on to continue blindly discrediting the success of the song and started talking crap.