... moving past the debris, anyone who actually wants to talk about what i've said is free to quote my post. applause and veneration and telling me how much tea i've spilled works wonders. just kidding.
yeah, my mistake for thinking you'd actually want to talk about something serious. youtube links now and more snide, oh dear. if i had known you'd call me delusional and obsessed i might not have bothered. well to be honest i probably would have because your points are worth replying to since they're wrong. doing yourself no favours. :( i don't want you to get banned! i won't report you for this.
my ignorance, right. the only thing you're doing with comments like that and this is showing me and everyone else that you, not i, don't know anything about the arguments you're making or at least clearly haven't thought them through. you don't need to get silly, you can just not bother and not sit and stew wherever you are. i'm not stewing. i would never get banned for anything i've said to you, and that's because i know how to have a discussion like an adult. maybe try and take from my example. ^_^
well snide remarks usually indicate that you're conceding you're wrong but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say the problem you have is that i'm actually not twisting your words and taking exactly what you say and what it means on face value and that's why it's so uncomfortable for you - because you actually have no idea how bad what you say sounds, and when you hear me say it back to you you're horrified. as you should be, cowsiss. pretty scary stuff and truly the problem.
hope you realise that when you say violence is an inevitable consequence of drawing cartoons that you are demonstrating the failure of islam to be a positive force within society. you're pointing out why it's a bad thing yet bewilderingly being an apologist for its extremist minority. and i also hope you realise that many muslims out there would say that you talking about the inevitability of violence for drawing cartoons is an insult to their religion, that one thing has nothing to do with the other, and when you talk about islam in this way you are giving credit to those who use violence to distort their religion away from the peaceful truth. which i don't agree with, because i think it's inherently not peaceful, but you're the one bizarrely concerned about muslim sensitivity more than anyone else's. i happen to agree with you that violence is inevitable when you have a holy book that strictly forbids drawing pictures. but that's a problem with the book and its supporters, not anyone who doesn't regard it as holy OR those believers in it who reject violence 100% without uselessly trying to get into the mindset of theocrats who'd kill you no later than they'd kill me.
i stand by what i said. i don't see such images because i don't seek them out, and the only time i see an "offensive" islam related image is when a non-muslim has been threatened to be killed or actually killed for it. those are the only times i see such images. because there are some people who only put the spotlight on even the slightest references to islam and pay no heed to any other supposed sensitivity because they know how some muslims will react, when other faiths do no react in the same manner. they are looking for ways to claim victimhood or cry oppression. and that goes for some evangelical christians or catholics too.
well let's not make this about assimilation because it's a diversion to undermine the principle of secularism and freedom of speech. it's just whataboutery. assimilation also includes assimilation to the lack of sensitivity that others may have to the culture you come from. getting used to people not liking what you like. they can behave however they like, just don't kill or support killing and i'm happy with it. find it frustrating and awful. there are ways to change your thinking that will allow you to feel more free and less oppressed if someone drawing a silly picture of a person they don't even believe is sacred makes you feel down.
and the right to tell them not to react in a certain way is claimed by the governments who grant them citizenship, who have a mandate to enforce the rule of law.
yes i know nothing about your beliefs. but i hope for your sake you are not being hypocritical while being sanctimonious.
i've only really got something to say to those who are quick to defend what's clear to me are the obvious downsides and damaging aspects of islam. of course i don't advocate generalising all muslims. but you have to remember that muslims wouldn't face this issue if the terrorist issue was dealt with. that's the source of this generalisation. not that non muslims want to be able to mock (or simply portray!) islam in the way that they do christianity.
i do too. but if drawing mohammed is the worst thing non-muslims can do, i think that speaks volumes about how progressive we actually are. i want equal treatment of all religions and opinions and cultures. freedom to ridicule and criticise opinions, even my own. freedom to make a mockery of them. i want everyone to have that right and i want it to go both ways. it's not equal to not include one faith in this, because it's dishonest to say that we have an issue with specific doctrines like this with any other religion.
but that's a different discussion than whether non-muslims should have the freedom to draw pictures of mohammed without feeling intimidated and threatened with death and as we've seen happen in increasing numbers this year, actually losing their lives at the hands of people yelling god is great, the prophet is avenged and such. everyone's faith is ridiculed on a daily basis and also praised and protected in equal amounts. don't pick and choose what is most relevant. i cannot get a bus without reading a sign telling me i have to accept god or i will burn in hell. how do you think that makes me feel? nothing, actually. only for those who are particularly vulnerable and scared and will take it seriously. i could say i'm offended but victimising myself is not useful.
i can't relate to the idea of collective punishment. how is freedom to draw pictures punishment for muslims? is gay marriage collective punishment for heterosexual married couples? it doesn't make sense to me.
i know they won't just get used to it so easily. but i think civilisation depends on it. it'll be a long confrontation that'll go on long after we're gone but i'm on the side of freedom not theocracy.
but what is happening is that people are being murdered for it. that's the reality. "respect me and i will respect you back" - this is a distortion. it's "respect me or i will kill you". doesn't work that way. pictures and drawings do not kill people. i think it's insulting to even bring up respect as a response to murder for pictures. respect life, and respect diversity of opinion. respect the right of someone to hate the thing you hold most dear. every culture, ideology, belief, political party or system, country, everything you can think of is mocked. islam is not special.
i take it you stay out of every single argument that isn't personally relevant for you then? if you're not a muslim then i hope you realise the irony in writing that and then proceeding to not shut the hell up. not for non-muslims it isn't. get over the fact that all sorts of things that are sacred to some people are not sacred to others. i have no problem with you finding something sacred as long as you allow me to find it worthless or contemptible. goes for anything. otherwise you're a fascist. as soon as extreme muslims show some respect and stop killing people for it. which is the extremists fault, exclusively. it's the one who commits the crime's fault. so they better get used to it, not us. they're the ones being the terrorists after all. either we stop drawing pictures muslims don't like or muslims stop killing us. i'm going with the latter. no truce can be made because these two things are not equivalent for any reasonable person.
this is false disrespect. muslims or any other religious people may have rules and customs that are required to be adhered to by their religion. now in what way does everyone else not following those customs mean that the muslims are being disrespected? think of any other religious "law" or custom. like not having gay sex for example. are christians and muslims disrespected by gay sex or gay romance? is allowing gay marriage disrespecting christian or muslim views on gay relationships?
if not, why are you worried about their views on drawing cartoons of mammals? it's laughable.