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Gaga did not loose her creativity

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PunkTheFunk   Paws Up 63,691
PunkTheFunk

I can't with this "you don't know how to see REAL music", "you don't know how to appreciate subtle creativity" like sis do you really think the only music we listen to is Gaga?:madge: I hate to be the guy that brags about his musical tastes but I listen to enough music to know when something is creative and when someone is deliberately playing it safe to soften their image. Joanne is the latter. And Gaga knows that we know this. She is not stupid enough to believe that we think she is somehow pushing the envelope by sitting on a stool and strumming a guitar. If Gaga had released a stripped back acoustic driven album in 1971 a la Joni Mitchell and Carole King when no one else was doing it, I might have called it innovative.

("B-b-but the Superbowl!" The SB was supposed to encapsulate her ENTIRE career. She spent like 3 min on the Joanne era, and it was at a piano/hugging a girl asking her to stay.)

Now am I saying that Joanne was completely devoid of creativity? NO. It had its moments, like the tour interludes everyone keeps bringing up. But when you look at the big picture, at the way the era has been presented to the general public, it is literally Gaga saying "I AM A REGULAR GIRL JUST LIKE YOU." TF, TFM, BTW, and ARTPOP were "I AM GOING TO CHANGE THE FACE OF POP MUSIC AND MAKE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE".

It offends me, as a Gaga fan who has seen her push boundaries and do things that I never would've dreamed of, that you would try to put the so-called innovativeness of the Joanne era up there with her previous eras. Frankly it's insulting to both her creativity and our intelligence.

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Didymus   Paws Up 18,342
Didymus
1 hour ago, Quark said:

Yes. She has been more "normal" than ever. But the whole point of this thread was simply that she still has her creativity. Is not like she is a bad artist now or like she is completely lost. Hopefully she uses her creativity more for LG6.

Right, agreed actually :ladyhaha: That was my own post here. She hasn't lost anything, I think she just largely lost interest in using it for the public :cryga:

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dit   Paws Up 12,150
dit
On 2/10/2018 at 5:44 PM, Doot said:

I think that there is a lot that goes into why people think she isn’t as creative anymore. I think she is still hella creative, for for me, I didn’t see a lot of passion or drive during the Joanne era  

The quality has 100% dipped in music videos (not the Joanne video tho, that’s gorgeous), as well as her stage performances. The stage was cool for the JWT but it was a stage that simply was cool for a technical standpoint, not from an artistic one. 

The theatricality of her work is what seems to be gone. There’s never any props on stage, storyline for the tour, her outfits are tame, the music videos lackluster, etc. I mean, if you look at her during the beginning of her career, whatever the album concept was, she literally embodied that with each appearance or interview. She had a theme and she stuck to it. 

We know ARTPOP was all over the place because of management issues, etc, but to be completely honest, the Joanne era is the one that seems like they literally just tossed things at the wall to see what would stick. 

(Note, I love the Joanne album. I’m merely speaking from a observer standpoint, I am not meaning to be negative.)

I think ARTPOP suffered from the management issues, and Joanne suffered from last minute changes and health issues. 

Her next album, for me anyway, will be the one that is going to determine a lot of things. I’ll support her either way, but I really hope to see that creative fire back from her. 

 

P.S. to respond to something someone else pointed out, I firmly believe that the first three albums would not have been possible without her having a kick ass team around her. Gaga has a ton of amazing creative ideas, but we should not ever for a second pretend like things such as Bad Romance, The Born This Way Ball, and her fashion was something that was all her own. She had an awesome, creative collaborative team behind her to help her hone those ideas into a clear cut vision. 

 

On 2/10/2018 at 6:56 PM, Cerny said:

I don’t think she did but I do think she’s nowhere near the level of creativity and daring mindset she was at years ago. Everything is so cliche nowadays and you know it’s getting rough when fans can accurately predict her Grammys performance days before the event, from the track selection to the setup and not to be an arsehole but even her freshly injected/taped whatever that was, face was predicted, i read fans saying she was going to show up like that and she did.

I’m not fully convinced that it’s about fans wanting a rehash of her previous more successful album cycles, I personally don’t want that, it’s just that she’s became predictable and awfully unexciting. At least for me.

And simplicity doesn’t have to be dull, sometimes less is more but that hasn’t been the case with Joanne, the music videos were neither cleverly shot nor memorable enough. The Perfect Illusion music video is super underwhelming as a music video accompanying a lead single, she sure as hell did not break the boundaries there, quite the opposite actually and I don’t think it made a good first impression. 

Also, I’d dare to say the Million Reasons music video was simplicity at its worst, easily one of the blandest pieces of media I’ve seen in recent years and it’s even more offensive considering the track It accompanied, which I consider her best single (not counting promo singles like Dope) since Marry the Night.

The John Wayne music video is pretty much a rehash and shadow of her old-self, pretty uneventful. The Joanne music video is cute, it does the job I like it and I think it’s the best from the bunch but it could damn well be passed off as a behind the scenes footage from a magazine photo shoot session.

Fashion wise, if the short shorts and cropped shirt combo with combat boots and pink hat were popular among the fan base and the general public to some extent, it’s not because they were instantly memorable, it’s because she made sure to overuse said looks until they got impregnated in our brains. 

Coherent and elaborated story telling through visuals was nowhere to be seen, it’s like she has so much to say with the music but is shy about enhancing said themes with visuals. And I call that lack of creativity and inspiration, she counts with an insane amount of connections all around the world, directors, photographers and designers love her. She does not struggle in that department, or maybe that’s what she needs to come up with something memorable, lack of resources.

The Joanne tour could very well be re-named the biggest hits tour, mostly flashy without substance with some cowboy inspired outfits thrown in the mix to sort of hide the lack of creative direction and make it seem in harmony with the album. Oh my god but did you see the moving bridges?

Super bowl, that was good but not unbelievable good like many like to claim. Fantastic intro, after that it went from good to ok, Bad Romance being the lowest point with the messy flash mob-like choreography and super cheap looking outfit.

The most interesting thing she did was the Dive bar “tour”, I really did love that too bad the second wave of dates got cancelled.

All in all very uninspired muted album cycle that while it does the job, it doesn’t set apart favorably from other pop star’s work that most people here adamantly analyze and trash harshly.

 

 

On 2/11/2018 at 1:17 AM, ChrisC said:

I don't agree with that. It's quite evident that she hasn't been creative since 2013. Where exactly is the creativity in Joanne?  I get it is a more toned down era and album but she still could have made better visuals and performances with the material on the album. The  lack of singles/visuals/promo made a lot of people feeling like she just doesn't care anymore or have the creativity. 

 

17 hours ago, AlexanderMagno said:

Yes, she did.

There are a lot of different artists with zero visuals and simple music who are still very creative. Gaga's "stripped-down" creations are average compared to really creative simple artists. 

These "she's being creative in different ways" excuses are clearly a sign of not knowing better artists. Just because Gaga changes style every era doesn't mean she's being creative everytime.

 

15 hours ago, Didymus said:

I have a problem with that assessment though :trollga: Rant initiated.

Just gonna leave the awful "real music" comment aside, but even apart from that I never thought this argumentation worked. She's released stripped back songs with "real instruments" in the spotlight since 2008 :gum: She already showed that side with Again Again, Brown Eyes, Speechless, Yoü and I, The Queen (2nd half), the Country Road version of Born This Way, her holiday EP, Dope, and the countless acoustic/stripped down performances, as well as the jazz etc. performances :saladga:

Now before you argue that Joanne was 100% stripped down, obviously that's false. Most tracks feature electronic elements, and there are three fully electronic dance tracks on it (with acoustic decoration only). Obviously the album features more acoustic elements, but she did not go far enough to describe the whole album as "stripped back" or "analog" or whatever. Obviously every Gaga album does need synths, "sick beats", killer videos (minus Million Reasons and the piano version of Joanne, but you can easily make comparisons with earlier Gaga video's: not all of them were ridiculously expensive or busy) and new outfits every day 'cause that's exactly what Gaga did for Joanne :stalkga:  If she was serious about the "real music" thing she'd have dropped John Wayne, Dancin' in Circles and Perfect Illusion in an instant.

I genuinely think that the fans who were disappointed by Joanne had no problem seeing a "different side" (god knows we already knew that side was shown 1000x since 2008), I think the music and the era still strayed way too far to the general formula without delivering the goods, thus ending up lackluster for them.

Upon hearing the album I instantly compared it to Shania Twain's Come on Over and Madonna's Music albums. Out of those three albums Joanne is the least stripped back and the most obviously radio friendly in design. Shania and Madge's eras were hugely successful and influential, so I refuse to see Joanne as some kind of boundary-pushing statement for stripped back "real music". People have no problem dealing with the difference when the end product is of quality :interestinga: How else did this fanbase survive the transition from The Fame to The Fame Monster?

 

11 hours ago, PunkTheFunk said:

I can't with this "you don't know how to see REAL music", "you don't know how to appreciate subtle creativity" like sis do you really think the only music we listen to is Gaga?:madge: I hate to be the guy that brags about his musical tastes but I listen to enough music to know when something is creative and when someone is deliberately playing it safe to soften their image. Joanne is the latter. And Gaga knows that we know this. She is not stupid enough to believe that we think she is somehow pushing the envelope by sitting on a stool and strumming a guitar. If Gaga had released a stripped back acoustic driven album in 1971 a la Joni Mitchell and Carole King when no one else was doing it, I might have called it innovative.

("B-b-but the Superbowl!" The SB was supposed to encapsulate her ENTIRE career. She spent like 3 min on the Joanne era, and it was at a piano/hugging a girl asking her to stay.)

Now am I saying that Joanne was completely devoid of creativity? NO. It had its moments, like the tour interludes everyone keeps bringing up. But when you look at the big picture, at the way the era has been presented to the general public, it is literally Gaga saying "I AM A REGULAR GIRL JUST LIKE YOU." TF, TFM, BTW, and ARTPOP were "I AM GOING TO CHANGE THE FACE OF POP MUSIC AND MAKE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE".

It offends me, as a Gaga fan who has seen her push boundaries and do things that I never would've dreamed of, that you would try to put the so-called innovativeness of the Joanne era up there with her previous eras. Frankly it's insulting to both her creativity and our intelligence.

5c1832f626c7886cc375719e8b186891.jpg

 

 

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FrankGutz   Paws Up 8,949
FrankGutz
On 11/2/2018 at 12:50 PM, PunkTheFunk said:

I can't with this "you don't know how to see REAL music", "you don't know how to appreciate subtle creativity" like sis do you really think the only music we listen to is Gaga?:madge: I hate to be the guy that brags about his musical tastes but I listen to enough music to know when something is creative and when someone is deliberately playing it safe to soften their image. Joanne is the latter. And Gaga knows that we know this. She is not stupid enough to believe that we think she is somehow pushing the envelope by sitting on a stool and strumming a guitar. If Gaga had released a stripped back acoustic driven album in 1971 a la Joni Mitchell and Carole King when no one else was doing it, I might have called it innovative.

("B-b-but the Superbowl!" The SB was supposed to encapsulate her ENTIRE career. She spent like 3 min on the Joanne era, and it was at a piano/hugging a girl asking her to stay.)

Now am I saying that Joanne was completely devoid of creativity? NO. It had its moments, like the tour interludes everyone keeps bringing up. But when you look at the big picture, at the way the era has been presented to the general public, it is literally Gaga saying "I AM A REGULAR GIRL JUST LIKE YOU." TF, TFM, BTW, and ARTPOP were "I AM GOING TO CHANGE THE FACE OF POP MUSIC AND MAKE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE".

It offends me, as a Gaga fan who has seen her push boundaries and do things that I never would've dreamed of, that you would try to put the so-called innovativeness of the Joanne era up there with her previous eras. Frankly it's insulting to both her creativity and our intelligence.

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giskardsb   Paws Up 7,237
giskardsb

of course, the other big question is why can nobody spell "lose" correctly anymore?  

 

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Didymus   Paws Up 18,342
Didymus
On 11-2-2018 at 8:19 AM, giskardsb said:

Too many seem to only recognize the type of creativity that slams you in the head.  The obvious and shiny types. Subtler types of creativity are invisible.  

What exactly was subtle about Joanne though, honest question :selena: Joanne as an era was far less subtle than Lemonade and if I recall correctly, most LMs bashed that project into the ground even though it featured more "subtle creativity" in composition, visuals, promo, performance and fashion :madge: So in their universe Lemonade is overrated even though it matches all the criteria they imagine to be on the "underrated" Joanne. This is obviously comically absurd.

The sad truth of the matter is that many fans will just swallow everything Gaga does and explain it away because of their undying devotion for her. This is very natural and normal for fans who cling to (the idea of) her but I feel like those people, including you, should just own up to the fact that you're one of those people who have decided not to try to be objective anymore because you'd rather praise everything she does, there's nothing even wrong or embarrassing about that, just admit it and stay out of the argumented discussions because you have nothing of content to add :gum:

All this "she's more subtle" and "she's not obvious and in-your-face anymore" talk is a super transparent evasion and disguising of the fact that Joanne's compositions are just as musically and lyrically evolved as every other album she's released, and that her way of presenting the album's concept was just as in-your-face and unsubtle as everything she's ever done, even if it was less dramatic. The Fame was 100x more subtle than Joanne and LMs are still presenting that album and era as basic and uninspired, let that sink in. So why should any sensible person listen to a LM who presents pre-Joanne Gaga as unsubtle and musically and artistically inferior? Looks to me like they themselves never understood what was so special about Gaga in the first place.

Edited by Didymus
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Miky   Paws Up 7,051
Miky
On 11. 2. 2018 at 4:26 PM, Lord Temptation said:

1) Gaga learned to play a new music instrument (guitar)

:ladyhaha: :ladyhaha: :ladyhaha: :ladyhaha: :ladyhaha: :ladyhaha: :ladyhaha: :ladyhaha: 

I see you've never held a guitar in your hands, let alone played it, judging by this comment. She barely even half-asses it lol.

Too many people here with moral superiority complex.

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