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Melanie Martinez responds to rape allegations

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codymonster   Paws Up 2,508
codymonster
31 minutes ago, Censored said:

Why do I feel like she labeled as "rape" a situation in which she went in with full consent or while being "unsure", because she regretted it much later on? :smh: Hell this could even be her boyfriend finding out she cheated on him back in the day and she might be trying to cover that up. Don't be so hasty people. :smh:

This, unfortunately. I feel we make mistakes in our lives sexually; I’ve made many. But if you are with someone and you let something happen and don’t outwardly make it apparent you don’t want it, it’s tough to really blame the other person. It’s a messy situation for sure, but I think you can’t call it rape. It’s more of a regret, but Melanie shouldn’t be held accountable for a bad choice to such a high defeee of allegations.

In other words, I truly think Melanie thought they were just fooling around (most times when young people fool around, it just happens) and due to the other girl going along with it, thought it was okay. I feel bad for the girl if she regrets it, but I think making a huge, public tweet like that might have been pushing it.. I feel it could have been emotionally dealt with at a smaller scale.

Again though, not enough information to say that my opinion is right or wrong!

Edited by codymonster
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Swan Heart   Paws Up 7,289
Swan Heart

Making radical comclusions on my part feels like the wrong thing to do here.

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They say it's the last song. They don't know us, you see. It's only the last song if we let it be.

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Censored   Paws Up 7,027
Censored
27 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

What Martinez said implies there wasn't "full consent." Not being sure isn't consent. The other person has to say Yes. Silence isn't consent.

What we do know is that there wasn't full consent. What we don't know is that Timothy regretted it. I think it's easy to know which one to believe.

Silence, while still going along with it, is not "no consent" either. We're talking about an adult afaik. She could've walked out any minute if she wanted to. Guilty sex and/or regret is not "no consent" or "rape".

 

(And from what I know from my experiences and others', in relationships where the people involved are close to each other, they don't hold awkward convos about "Yes" (tf :smh:) before having sex, there's just making subtle moves on each other and if one doesn't like that, he/she simply walks away.)

 

Just wait for more information or a court or something, it's not the right thing to do to accuse someone of rape when you don't know details. :/

Edited by Censored
it wasn't laaaahv

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derpmonster   Paws Up 755
derpmonster
7 minutes ago, Censored said:

Silence, while still going along with it, is not "no consent" either. We're talking about an adult afaik. She could've walked out any minute if she wanted to. Guilty sex and/or regret is not "no consent" or "rape".

 

(And from what I know from my experiences and others', in relationships where the people involved are close to each other, they don't hold awkward convos about "Yes" (tf :smh:) before having sex, there's just making subtle moves on each other and if one doesn't like that, he/she simply walks away.)

 

Just wait for more information or a court or something, it's not the right thing to do to accuse someone of rape when you don't know details. :/

From the timeline I understand, this is not an adult we are talking about.

This was not a relationship and was clearly the first time they had sex. Making sure especially for the first time is important. Also important to see and recognize signs of discomfort.

Like it or not, silence *is* no consent. That is common sense (if someone really wants to have sex with you, why not see what they have to say when they're sober? likewise, what's awkward about "Do you want this?" or "is this okay?" and getting an ecstatic Yes?) and the law. A lot of people are in situations they can't walk away from--examples, if you're intoxicated and someone is taking advantage of you or if you're with a person in a position of power.

I am not accusing Melanie of rape. I don't know what the precise definition is. But this was sexual assault because there wasn't consent (which Melanie herself has implied). You know what we don't know though? The whole guilt or regret accusation you're coming up with. We don't know about that.

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JDi   Paws Up 1,489
JDi
32 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

It's carefully planned exactly because people would say she's salty about her career. It's preemptive.

let me remind you for the last time that Heller supposedly didn't write that with the intention of exposing Martinez.

 

1 hour ago, derpmonster said:

I'm not defending the supposed victim every time--thanks for the assumption. From what we know, this is indeed a case of lack of consent.

Martinez admitted it herself. Her choice of words was, "she didn't say no." That's not consent. "Yes" is consent. And that's what the law says too. Affirmative consent or nothing. It's because in many cases people feel pressured and can't say No.

but you are, because we know nothing.

Martinez admitted nothing. the girl said there were multiple no's and Martinez denied it. she has to deny the key detail of the story to defend herself. whether she's lying or telling the truth, she doesn't start writing that sentence with the intention of defining consent :toofunny: just think about how irrational you are...

and, again, the fact that she was inconsiderate about the way it was bound to be interpreted is in her favor.

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derpmonster   Paws Up 755
derpmonster
1 minute ago, JDi said:

let me remind you for the last time that Heller supposedly didn't write that with the intention of exposing Martinez.

 

but you are, because we know nothing.

Martinez admitted nothing. the girl said there were multiple no's and Martinez denied it. she has to deny the key detail of the story to defend herself. whether she's lying or telling the truth, she doesn't start writing that sentence with the intention of defining consent :toofunny: just think about how irrational you are...

and, again, the fact that she was inconsiderate about the way it was bound to be interpreted is in her favor.

She wasn't going to mention the name but she decided to. She could have changed her note before posting, you know. Not a radical idea. :)

We do know something and you're literally willfully ignoring things now. She could have said "She agreed to it" and still defend herself. But she said "she didn't say no," and that's her own words (again, no reason to come up with reasons as to why she didn't mean what she said just to defend her). I'm not irrational; you are coming up with all explanations to deny what happened.

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Decodekid   Paws Up 18,209
Decodekid

I mean she is basically saying that  somehing happened but that the girl never said no, umm she's cancelled :awkney:

Im Harol don't tell anyone

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ZiggyZiggs   Paws Up 13,145
ZiggyZiggs

after reading so many different viewpoints, i'm so conflicted like what do i do. im such a huge fan of hers, she admitted that they did stuff. consent is the main thing here. she didnt say no but she did not say yes. but timothy said that she said no out loud multiple times. but then melanie said they both 'chose' to do it so idk. wat should i do, ive got her albums i stan her hard, idek :saladga: 

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ZiggyZiggs   Paws Up 13,145
ZiggyZiggs
11 minutes ago, Decodekid said:

I mean she is basically saying that  somehing happened but that the girl never said no, umm she's cancelled :awkney:

i think that statement was a direct reply to timothy's statement were she said that she said no multiple times.and melanie said that didnt happen.  idk what to believe

Edited by ZiggyZiggs
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Bebe   Paws Up 12,977
Bebe
2 minutes ago, codymonster said:

This, unfortunately. I feel we make mistakes in our lives sexually; I’ve made many. But if you are with someone and you let something happen and don’t outwardly make it apparent you don’t want it, it’s tough to really blame the other person. It’s a messy situation for sure, but I think you can’t call it rape. It’s more of a regret, but Melanie shouldn’t be held accountable for a bad choice to such a high defeee of allegations.

In other words, I truly think Melanie thought they were just fooling around and due to the other girl going along with it, thought it was okay. I feel bad for the girl if she regrets it, but I think making a huge, public tweet like that might have been pushing it..

Timothy said she repeatedly said no:

"I never said yes, I said no repeatedly... I lay still in shock completely not reciprocating... She performed oral sex on me and then I was penetrated by a sex toy without being asked"

For two nights straight Timothy rejected all of her advances, she gave no indication that she consented. She was high, she was exhausted and like many rape victims it seems like she was somewhat paralyzed in shock once things continued to escalate (something reported by 70% of women who have been sexually assaulted).

I'm sure in Melanie's head she thought they were just fooling around, but that's no excuse for not getting some form of explicit consent. Timothy constantly saying no, lying still, not once affirming that she wanted it and not reciprocating is not an indication of consent at all. Timothy didn't "go along with it" just because she didn't physically fight her off. She describes lying there just wanting it all to be over, that's not indicative of fooling around in the moment and later having regrets, that's indicative of her not wanting what is happening to her at the moment.

I've had sexual experiences that, I wouldn't say I regret, but that I didn't enjoy. I've had moments where I'm like "I'm not super into this, but I'm okay with it happening"  I can not be enthused about doing some sexual act, but still consent to trying it or doing it - that doesn't seem to be what happened here. Timothy was not into it and didn't want it to happen.

Timothy repeatedly said no, Melanie persisted and eventually grew bolder and continued to escalate her touching without ever receiving any affirmation from Timothy that she was enjoying it or consented.

This is why sexual education is so important, and why discussions around consent need to be a part of such an education.

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ZiggyZiggs   Paws Up 13,145
ZiggyZiggs
5 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Timothy said she repeatedly said no:

"I never said yes, I said no repeatedly... I lay still in shock completely not reciprocating... She performed oral sex on me and then I was penetrated by a sex toy without being asked"

For two nights straight Timothy rejected all of her advances, she gave no indication that she consented. She was high, she was exhausted and like many rape victims it seems like she was somewhat paralyzed in shock once things continued to escalate (something reported by 70% of women who have been sexually assaulted).

I'm sure in Melanie's head she thought they were just fooling around, but that's no excuse for not getting some form of explicit consent. Timothy constantly saying no, lying still, not once affirming that she wanted it and not reciprocating is not an indication of consent at all. Timothy didn't "go along with it" just because she didn't physically fight her off. She describes lying there just wanting it all to be over, that's not indicative of fooling around in the moment and later having regrets, that's indicative of her not wanting what is happening to her at the moment.

I've had sexual experiences that, I wouldn't say I regret, but that I didn't enjoy. I've had moments where I'm like "I'm not super into this, but I'm okay with it happening"  I can not be enthused about doing some sexual act, but still consent to trying it or doing it - that doesn't seem to be what happened here. Timothy was not into it and didn't want it to happen.

Timothy repeatedly said no, Melanie persisted and eventually grew bolder and continued to escalate her touching without ever receiving any affirmation from Timothy that she was enjoying it or consented.

This is why sexual education is so important, and why discussions around consent need to be a part of such an education.

but melanie said she didnt say no (im not saying that gives her a free pass) im just trying to understand what happened between them. this could easily be her regretting what she did and blaming it on melanie. truth is we dont know what  really happened. we're just taking them for their word

Edited by ZiggyZiggs
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JDi   Paws Up 1,489
JDi
Just now, derpmonster said:

*out of arguments*

maybe if you go back you'll notice I only shared my opinion on what it looks like... because that's all we're capable of.

you on the other hand:

8 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

you are coming up with all explanations to deny what happened.

:usrs:

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Bebe   Paws Up 12,977
Bebe
12 minutes ago, ZiggyZiggs said:

but melanie said she didnt say know (im not saying that gives her a free pass) im just trying to understand what happened between them. this could easily be her regretting what she did and blaming it on melanie. truth is we dont know what  really happened. we're just taking them for their words 

I'm sure there was a point where Timothy stopped saying no... But that didn't mean the absence of no suddenly meant yes.

From what Timothy wrote, it seemed like for two nights she was pressured, for two nights she said no (or some form of no - such as "my boyfriend would be upset" or "i'm exhausted"). these rejections as well as Melanie's persistence continued for hours. Eventually Melanie started stroking her arm, which Timothy says she let happen. It's at this moment where it seems like the "no" stopped (which isn't indicative of consent, she has just spent hours saying no and talking about how she is exhausted). Melanie started asking if she could touch her breasts, which Timothy didn't respond to. With no response Melanie started growing bolder and touching her more and more, Timothy hasn't said no - but she hasn't at any point indicated she was into it (quite the opposite - she has spent all this time continuously rebuking her). At this point Timothy is just lying there in shock, frozen and wishing it would just be over (common for survivors of sexual assault) while Melanie continues to push things forward with literally no reciprocation, no verbal affirmation after spending hours pressuring Timothy to let her touch her only to be rebuked time and time again. She then performs oral sex with her without consent and then penetrates her without asking...

That's serious and it really seems like Melanie wasn't taking no for an answer, she persisted for hours (according to Timothy), was rebuked for the first night, got Timothy high and tried again for hours and was continuously rebuked and eventually Timothy stopped saying no and Melanie took that as a yes and started molesting her and eventually penetrating her without any consent given.

Edited by Bebe
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AJK273   Paws Up 2,054
AJK273
5 minutes ago, Bebe said:

I'm sure there was a point where Timothy stopped saying no... But that didn't mean the absence of no suddenly meant yes.

From what Timothy wrote, it seemed like for two nights she was pressured, for two nights she said no (or some form of no - such as "my boyfriend would be upset" or "i'm exhausted"). these rejections as well as Melanie's persistence continued for hours. Eventually Melanie started stroking her arm, which Timothy says she let happen. It's at this moment where it seems like the "no" stopped (which isn't indicative of consent). Melanie started asking if she could touch her breasts, which Timothy didn't respond to. With no response Melanie started growing bolder and touching her more and more, Timothy hasn't said no - but she hasn't at any point indicated she was into it (quite the opposite - she has spent all this time continuously rebuking her). At this point Timothy is just lying there in shock, frozen and wishing it would just be over (common for survivors of sexual assault) while Melanie continues to push things forward with literally no reciprocation, no verbal affirmation after spending hours pressuring Timothy to let her touch her. She performs oral sex with her without consent and then penetrates her without asking...

Please one more time for the people in the back 

200.gif

Timothy's experience is sexual assault. It is inexcusable what Melanie did. 

Edited by AJK273
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J W T A S C E N D E D

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Debithius   Paws Up 930
Debithius

Maybe what Melanie did didn't feel like ''pushing'' to her and maybe it did to Timothy. Maybe Timothy didn't show any signs of being uncomfortable and maybe she didnt say no, maybe it looked like she wanted to have sex? I am not supporting either but there are always two sides to the story. Everything might have had to do with perspective so instead of posting this publicly for everyone to see (which is rude, I feel) Timothy could have talked to Melanie about this in private. 

As we know, people like to overdramatize stuff like this when it's told in public. Again, I don't support either but I don't know what to believe when so many ''victims'' cry wolf and destroy innocent people's lives and then we have situations where people believe the predator despite being guilty. 

Edited by Debithius
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