Melanie Martinez responds to rape allegations

[MonsterPaws 2,631]

3 hours ago, KingRedd said:

You can say yes but not be in consent? So if someone says, “ you want to have sex” and the other says, “yes” they can still claim rape? I don’t think that’s how it should work it’s getting a little out of hand. If two people say yes let’s have sex than that’s the end of it. Unless one says stop during the sex then you have a case. 

That's too black and white though.

Consent, whether we like it or not is a grey area, but just saying yes isn't enough. Coercion, persuasion etc. all play a part in this. There are situations in sex where one can feel extremely uncomfortable and saying no simply isn't easy.

Like you said, saying no in the middle of sex is one way of saying it, but there's a difference between saying yes and not saying no (which is the case here with Melanie and Timothy).

"Never said no" ISN'T an excuse. People freeze up sometimes and just saying "no" is easier said than done. 

[shmal96 2,928]

She disabled all the comments to her YT videos too

[ZiggyZiggs 29,846]

9 minutes ago, Dayum said:

Reading Timothy's account felt like it was drafted by a lawyer or something.  I wonder how drastic the industry would react if we compare this to Spacey's only lying on top of another guy and got fully rejected by the industry.

Melanie's not good for taking advantage of her friend like that. But I also agree that Timothy acquiesced in the end. She implicitly said yes with her silence because she had been saying no and she didn't for the last time because she wanted everything to be over. What she is saying is: "Let's get this over with. Lick my pssy; do what you want with my body."  

Omg stop! Everyone stop saying he was only accused of that! He was accused of lots more including rape! Ugh

[Eros92 2,481]

It's one story vs. another.

Did they engage in sexual activity? Yes both sides more or less agreed to that. 

Was it rape? I mean who knows. We weren't there. Now I'm probably going to be attacked cause I'm not taking Timothys side but I'm also not taking Melanies. Im just saying WE don't know everything. 

[ryanripley 86,575]

26 minutes ago, MikelAS said:

You've obviously never had sex. 

i have had sex and they're right

body language isn't that hard to decode and some people are very shy

[theahsfan 13,595]

It really would've helped the situation if Timothy'd have said no. Still doesn't excuse what she did though.

[LM 4,032]

Why didn't she just walk away and said "sry Melanie, I don't want this, we both would regret, cya tomorrow"

Also, why didn't they talk about this before she posted this on the internet? Not even Melanie and Timothy agree on the same version of the story so how can the public have an objective opinion about this? If you don't want to sue her don't take this sh!t on the internet

[Harry 26,836]

3 hours ago, Bebe said:

It just makes me cautious because it reminds me of a friends story. She was at a party with this guy and they ended up alone, he was being really aggressive, she said no, he basically forced herself on her anyway and she just "gave up" and let him do whatever he wanted. She felt like he wouldn't listen anyway, and resisting would have just prolonged the entire experience. At first she felt like that was just an experience she 'regretted', she agreed to go alone with him, she stopped saying no and she didn't scream or fight back. Later on she recognised it for what it was, but she still has visits to the hospital because she feels suicidal and that event still affects her deeply.

no=no and just because a person doesn't fight back, or scream, or yell and seemingly just allows it to happen doesn't mean the event wasn't non-consensual. 

I think this is way more common with sexual assaults than people realise. I guess most people visualise rape as a woman screaming and crying with some guy on top of them, and if they aren't that visibly emotional and resistant, then they aren't making it clear enough that they aren't giving consent. That's clear from some of the replies here, too.

This made me think of the awful (but brilliant) episodes of Orange Is The New Black where Pennsatucky is raped. By someone that she knows and is romantically linked to, but she doesn't give him consent. Then the lingering shot on her face as it happens is so painful because she looks completely lifeless and helpless. I know it's just a TV show but from stories I've heard such as your friends (and this Melanie Martinez case), it happens a lot. Also in these cases (and on OITNB), the victim doesn't really realise the extent of what happened until much later.

I read an article about that episode of OITNB about this around the time it came out and just dug it up: http://www.vulture.com/2015/07/orange-is-the-new-black-is-the-only-tv-show-that-understands-rape.html

“It made me cry,” said a young woman I just happened to sit next to at my local bar when I told her I was writing about Pennsatucky’s rape scene. The woman was beautiful and just out of college. She was also a rape survivor whose sister researches rape for a living. “I think they captured the lifelessness,” she told me, “that happens when you decide to stop fighting.”

I have no personal experience with rape or sexual assault, but I don't understand why it's so hard for people to just listen to victims and try to empathise with their feelings. This is a complex situation, and I'm seeing a lot of victim blaming in here saying that Timothy didn't make her non-consent clear enough.

An individual shouldn't be obligated to justify their non-consent so loudly in order for sexual contact to stop. Clear consent on both parts is the only thing that should even make an interaction a sexual one. Anything other should be considered harassment. And Melanie choosing to respond by saying "she never said no" is... a choice. She confirmed that it happened, yet didn't acknowledge that there was any consent. People still defending her after reading her statement have a lot to answer for imo.

[KingRedd 3,139]

50 minutes ago, MonsterPaws said:

That's too black and white though.

Consent, whether we like it or not is a grey area, but just saying yes isn't enough. Coercion, persuasion etc. all play a part in this. There are situations in sex where one can feel extremely uncomfortable and saying no simply isn't easy.

Like you said, saying no in the middle of sex is one way of saying it, but there's a difference between saying yes and not saying no (which is the case here with Melanie and Timothy).

"Never said no" ISN'T an excuse. People freeze up sometimes and just saying "no" is easier said than done. 

I agree that not saying no is a gray area; however, if someone agrees by verbally saying yes to sex than, in my opinion, it cannot be rape. If that’s the case than sex should end up illegal because anyone can drop the rape allegation if they said yes but felt bad about it in the end. People have to use their voice and say no if they don’t want sex. Saying nothing or saying yes makes it difficult to prove rape allegations rather than a person who is ademently saying no. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,256]

This is quite a story. I'm completely torn on the matter because both sides seem to be saying very different things. Is one person lying/exaggerating? Are they both lying/exaggerating? I like Melanie's music, so I know that this is causing me to naturally possess somewhat of a bias but it's not like I was the biggest fan of her personality, so it's not like it would all be a complete loss. The timing of all this is a bit suspect, it's coming out when her next album isn't far away, as if it hopes to make attention in a big way. But that doesn't have to necessarily mean anything at the same time. I'll keep an open mind on it until more comes out. It sounds complicated at the moment and is best worked out between them and in court. For the internet to play judge, jury and executioner isn't right when there's no evidence and there's contradictions from both parties present.

What I do want to add, though, is...has the word "no" got to be said? While I've never been in such situations myself, I've been acting it out and my first reaction is to say something along the lines of "I don't want to do that," or "I'm not into that," or "I don't like you in that way." But it wasn't natural for me to actually say "no." I'd perhaps only start to say that if they began physically forcing themselves on me. But surely, all the other sentences are a longer equivalent of saying no? Just a longer way of saying it. And it works in reverse too. Using yes and no wouldn't be my natural inclination when it comes to sex, rather it would be all about eye contact, mutually returning any subtle bits of intimacy, saying "I want you," stuff like that. I know I'm inexperienced, but surely people don't say to someone "do you want to have sex?" and they reply "yes" or "no"? Or am I just being very naive? My point is, is asking for consent outright really necessary? And is giving a direct yes or no response just as necessary? It all seems a bit unnatural and robotic and I doubt most people's first times are that straightforward. But that doesn't make them rape.

I hope no one takes this the wrong way. I genuinely just want to get a consensus on some difficult questions.

[Morphine Prince 96,071]

WELP. Not a good response. 

[TheWitness 3,630]

I’m not taking sides until more evidence is shown

i dont want to believe someone I idolized could do this

[Bio 23,538]

1 hour ago, ryanripley said:

i have had sex and they're right

body language isn't that hard to decode and some people are very shy

Body language is very hard to decode lol. A lot of people are uncomfortable during sex even though they want to have it. A lot of people are insecure, shy, never had it... If I was sober and having sex with someone like that of course I would do anything to make that person fell comfortable, especially it it was one of my friends.

But if I was high I don’t know for sure I would be that careful. If I made a move and the person let me continue I would take that as consent, point blank. 

[Harry 26,836]

12 minutes ago, Bio said:

Body language is very hard to decode lol. A lot of people are uncomfortable during sex even though they want to have it. A lot of people are insecure, shy, never had it... If I was sober and having sex with someone like that of course I would do anything to make that person fell comfortable, especially it it was one of my friends.

But if I was high I don’t know for sure I would be that careful. If I made a move and the person let me continue I would take that as consent, point blank. 

It's not always necessarily "letting" someone continue, though. Sometimes it can be feeling like you have no choice but to just "get it over with" because you feel powerless. A lot of cases are like this. If the person isn't reciprocating any kind of interest at all and you're just... doing stuff to them - then something is up.

You end your statement "point blank" as though you've just made a really great point that should be obvious to everyone, but it's actually kinda worrying imo. If you tried to perform a sexual act on someone that seemed even remotely hesitant, distant or motionless and wasn't saying anything - you would just carry on? Wouldn't that feel creepy? I really can't fathom that you'd take someone in that state to be giving consent, or that you'd even find it enjoyable for that matter.

Even if you thought that someone was acting uncomfortable but they "want to have it" (which is kind of a gross frat-bro take on it anyway), wouldn't you stop and make sure they were okay lol? Feels weird to even imagine identifying that someone is acting uncomfortable or hesitant and not partaking and you'd just continue.

I do understand where you're coming from but I think it's dangerous and I just want you to consider this feeling that many people have described where they feel too powerless or scared in that situation to stop it from happening. I work in a school and a 16 year old was recently in a situation like this and she's been a wreck ever since. It makes me sad to see people say that the victim should've done more to halt the situation when clearly it's not easy for some people to make that stand.

[MonsterPaws 2,631]

1 hour ago, KingRedd said:

I agree that not saying no is a gray area; however, if someone agrees by verbally saying yes to sex than, in my opinion, it cannot be rape. If that’s the case than sex should end up illegal because anyone can drop the rape allegation if they said yes but felt bad about it in the end. People have to use their voice and say no if they don’t want sex. Saying nothing or saying yes makes it difficult to prove rape allegations rather than a person who is ademently saying no. 

Hmm ok I definitely get your perspective and thank you for sharing it.

But let's say that someone was forced to say yes to sex. They "verbally [said] yes" so would it count?

That's a bit unrealistic, so let's take another scenario in which the victim was drunk or even half-drunk, and verbally said yes, would it count?

I'm just curious about your opinion on these kinds of scenarios.