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Melanie Martinez accused of rape


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MJHolland

To @ZiggyZiggs@Beytwice , and @IAMSOPOP I wanted to share some words with you before that other duplicate thread was closed. @ReginaGeorge .

We should get one thing straight; none of us personally knows either party involved in this situation. We have nothing to gain or lose here.

That is why it is absolutely important that we listen to both sides. We do not know, and will likely never know for certain, what happened those few nights.

The most important thing that we do going forward and to demonstrate respect. Especially in a she-said-she-said situation.

What we should absolutely NOT do is baselessly attack potential victims of sexual assault. 

Real victims of sexual assault are watching you attack this woman. They are watching you call her a faker. They are watching you call her greedy and attention seeking. They are watching you say 'she didn't do enough to stop the rape'.

They are watching you say and do these things while they contemplate whether or not they come forward with their own experiences. This is in no way what we want. This is why people go years with undisclosed pain. 

It is fine to withhold judgment of Martinez. It is not fine to baselessly attack accusers. 

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ZiggyZiggs
2 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

To @ZiggyZiggs@Beytwice , and @IAMSOPOP I wanted to share some words with you before that other duplicate thread was closed. @ReginaGeorge .

We should get one thing straight; none of us personally knows either party involved in this situation. We have nothing to gain or lose here.

That is why it is absolutely important that we listen to both sides. We do not know, and will likely never know for certain, what happened those few nights.

The most important thing that we do going forward and to demonstrate respect. Especially in a she-said-she-said situation.

What we should absolutely NOT do is baselessly attack potential victims of sexual assault. 

Real victims of sexual assault are watching you attack this woman. They are watching you call her a faker. They are watching you call her greedy and attention seeking. They are watching you say 'she didn't do enough to stop the rape'.

They are watching you say and do these things while they contemplate whether or not they come forward with their own experiences. This is in no way what we want. This is why people go years with undisclosed pain. 

It is fine to withhold judgment of Martinez. It is not fine to baselessly attack accusers. 

i never attacked anyone, ive been pretty neutral until people started pointing out questionable stuff about Timothy. im still neutral, if you check my comments on other threads i repeatedly say we dont know what went down, lets wait for more info to come out before we start dragging either of them. and i stick by that

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4 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

To @ZiggyZiggs@Beytwice , and @IAMSOPOP I wanted to share some words with you before that other duplicate thread was closed. @ReginaGeorge .

We should get one thing straight; none of us personally knows either party involved in this situation. We have nothing to gain or lose here.

That is why it is absolutely important that we listen to both sides. We do not know, and will likely never know for certain, what happened those few nights.

The most important thing that we do going forward and to demonstrate respect. Especially in a she-said-she-said situation.

What we should absolutely NOT do is baselessly attack potential victims of sexual assault. 

Real victims of sexual assault are watching you attack this woman. They are watching you call her a faker. They are watching you call her greedy and attention seeking. They are watching you say 'she didn't do enough to stop the rape'.

They are watching you say and do these things while they contemplate whether or not they come forward with their own experiences. This is in no way what we want. This is why people go years with undisclosed pain. 

It is fine to withhold judgment of Martinez. It is not fine to baselessly attack accusers. 

I see your point. I understand. It’s just. Unless someone in your life has ever tried to ruin your life making complete false accusation.... you don’t know the pain Melanie or anyone who’s ever been falsely accused goes through. It can get suicidal.  I guess the same can happen to a rape victim. Ugh, this situation is just a huge mess. Only time will tell who’s telling the truth.

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3 hours ago, ZiggyZiggs said:

yes ofc, im a victim of rape myself. i never reported it to the police. only my closest friends know what happened.

im only saying this to people who are so quick to believe anything thats on the internet without knowing the facts and people who shame others who say "lets wait till we get more info" 

I'm sorry that you've been through that experience, but what you said was that she had holes in her story, not that we don't have all the facts. Those two things are completely different. We can say we don't know for sure without restoring to "what she says doesn't add up," which 100% of the time rests on the assumption that rape victims cannot behave in certain ways otherwise they're lying, or more likely to be lying. I'm sure you would feel the same way if someone implied you might be lying about your experience just because you never went to the police, no? It's the same thing to insinuate that, just because she pretended to be cool with it afterwards, or had even legitimately healed enough afterwards, to wear a freaking costume of her ex-best friend, that somehow things don't add up. One of my friends that was raped still makes rape jokes. Is she more likely to be lying because "surely someone that was really raped would never be healed enough to joke from the perspective of their rapist." That's the same logic you're using posting that picture and acting like it is in any way relevant to this discussion. People heal. They continue to try to advance their career which if they are aspiring musicians includes posting Instagram ads for their music. They dress up in costumes if they want. None of that is mutually exclusive with being raped.

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MJHolland
3 minutes ago, ZiggyZiggs said:

i never attacked anyone, ive been pretty neutral until people started pointing out questionable stuff about Timothy. im still neutral, if you check my comments on other threads i repeatedly say we dont know what went down, lets wait for more info to come out before we start dragging either of them. and i stick by that

I commend that. 

I have to point out how we are compassionate to each side though. 

For Martinez, we should hear her out. We should hear her side of the story. We should be patient and understanding and in time ready to forgive if it’s true. 

For her accuse, we should make her she’s ok. We should hear her out too, and extend words of support, campasion, and comfort. 

What we should not do, which I think you did in fact play a part in, is participate in threads that dredge up her past to cast doubt on her character and motives for coming forward with a story about her assault.

We should not set guidelines for how a victim of sexual assault must act in order to be believed, which you certainly tried to do. Yes, it is possible for Timothy to have been friends with Martinez for years after. I dated a sexual assaulter long after being violated, and many others do. Sexual assault carried out by a loved one makes people act in irrational ways. 

You don’t have to believe her, but when you start attacking her character and motives based on tweets and her ambition, you’re discouraging victims of sexual assault from coming forward. 

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MJHolland
7 minutes ago, IAMSOPOP said:

I see your point. I understand. It’s just. Unless someone in your life has ever tried to ruin your life making complete false accusation.... you don’t know the pain Melanie or anyone who’s ever been falsely accused goes through. It can get suicidal.  I guess the same can happen to a rape victim. Ugh, this situation is just a huge mess. Only time will tell who’s telling the truth.

I agree. It’s a sh*tty situation. Rape sucks, who knew! 

It’s important to be compassionate towards BOTH sides in a situation like this. 

For the most part, I will judge Martinez on how she responds to this. She should be an adult and reach out to this person. She has the power to clear this up, come to an understanding with her, and explain to the public where exactly the lines of consent were misconstrued for both parties, how the misunderstanding on consent happened, and demonstrate to us that she knows what consent is.

If need be, and it think this is a must, she should apologize for making her friend feel like she was taken advantage of. 

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bumblebee
1 hour ago, Dark Salvation said:

Don't believe Timothy (or whatever there name was) No proof,no evidence. Words & Tweets mean anything. Do you not think its odd how so many people have accused people recently? There's no proof she did it. :/

 

And how exactly will it be proven fake or real? There is one thing to understand: this was something that happened between two adults in the bedroom, without eyewitnesses. Now there's Timothy who says she was raped, and now there's Melanie who assumes the sexual encounter between them was consensual. The court will never ever look into such a case, because how the hell is the judge going to determine which of the sides says the truth when the court can't be provided with eyewitnesses, tapes, recordings or any other form of evidence?

That is why, unless either Timothy or Melanie confesses she's been lying, the public will never ever have anything proven, the court will never prove anything real or fake. Providing this, the public will be left with an option to either believe Timothy or believe Melanie or not give a damn about it, and nobody will ever know what happened in that bedroom "for real". 

"Innocent until proven guilty" has nothing to do with the public's perception of Melanie. "Innocent until proven guilty" is an ancient cocnept of the law system, not of the public life. What is happening between Timothy and Melanie is a process of public life,  not a process of the system of law, since there's hardly a chance the court will consider this case.

In a very rational and emotionless world you could expect a reaction like this: "ok, some lady claims she was raped by her best friend, but her best friend denies it. This happened in their bedroom and there's no evidence to provide proof to either of the sides, so Imma wait while the court/policemen say something and unleash my reaction after the court rules in somebody's favour." 

However, the world is neither rational nor emotionless, especially in the age of the super-speed internet and social media. The reaction to such news/claims/accusations will always be emotional and irrational and feeling-driven, and people will choose to unleash emotions without the court telling them if it's right or if it's wrong, especially since everybody can clearly see the court will not take the case into consideration, since physical proof in the cases of rape can almost never be presented. 

Once again, unless either Timothy or Melaine decided to say she was lying, the public would be waiting for the facts and proof in vain. This, however, can't stop people from either supporting Timothy or supporting Melanie, because it is an emotional and feeling-driven world we live in and everybody has the right to express and voice either their compassion and care for the victim, or their doubt and scepticism. 

There are countless arguments both sides can provide, and that's why the debates about rape culture are fierce with every single case made public.  Some say love-making and sexual behaviour have been non-verbalized for centuries, and not every person in the world starts sex by asking "Do you agree to get involved into a consensual love-making with me?" and by simultaneously taping his/her partner respond "yes" just so that there is "proof" that it was really consensual. Indeed, sometimes people just start making out, and then the stuff goes on. Furthermore, there are millions of situations that happen every day on this planet when people get drunk/high and hook up with someone and the following day they regret it so much and have this nasty feeling that doesn't let them gain inner harmony, and it would be easier to blame it on somebody rather than to accept that it was a mutual mistake. 

However, since we're looking into this one particular case, there are also better ways to hook up with someone you're interested in than by seducing her with weed smoking and sexual talks that last until early morning. Just like people keep saying that Timothy could've hit Melanie on the face with that sex toy of hers and then run out of the room, let's accept that Melanie could've found better ways to express her affection for Timothy, especially since they were close friends. Melanie could've given her flowers, asked her out on a date, idk, given her presents and taken more time in expressing her affection, like a week, not just two nights of "let's hook up, your bf doesn't need to now, here's some weed, can I touch your arm?" :air: 

To sum up, I just would love to give a piece of advice to everyone, and this advice is in no direct way related to this Timothy/Melanie case, although I, too, will be talking about situations where people are not forcefully abused, like are not tied/captured by their rapists and not threatened with guns or other weapons, etc.

The advice:

the era of sexual liberty which we are blessed to live in gives us a lot of opportunities and freedom, but more freedom always comes hand-in-hand with more responsibility. Try to remember that our world, although the most beautiful place in the Solar system, is still far from safe, far from being populated only by good-hearted, nice and understanding people who will never dare to exploit you. There is always a chance, sadly, that you could come across people who are more cruel/violent than you and who do not take "no" for an answer. If you say "no" to someone and this person doesn't understand, try to somehow escape the instant, to leave this person's presence, no matter if he/she is your friend, relative or working partner, and move into a safer place, if, obviously, your physical freedom of motion and movement is not restrained. I know this may sound banal and obvious, but I think this is what parents need to start telling their kids.

Beforetime, in the post-AIDS era, parents just thought it was their top responsibility to tell their children to have "safe sex", use condom, etc. Now we need to teach everybody that getting to a safer place once your "no" has been ignored is the first thing that must be on your mind, no matter how funny, giggle-worthy, messy or unserious the situation between you and this person may seem, no matter how long you've known each other, etc. Learn this rule by heart just like you've learned the traffic rule of crossing the road and green/red light. And once in a safer place, you will have the chance to contact for help and to think of the ways to deal with this person in the future. Stay safe!

:kara: 

 

 

 

 

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BeIIadonna
Just now, bumblebee said:

 

And how exactly will it be proven fake or real? There is one thing to understand: this was something that happened between two adults in the bedroom, without eyewitnesses. Now there's Timothy who says she was raped, and now there's Melanie who assumes the sexual encounter between them was consensual. The court will never ever look into such a case, because how the hell is the judge going to determine which of the sides says the truth when the court can't be provided with eyewitnesses, tapes, recordings or any other form of evidence?

That is why, unless either Timothy or Melanie confesses she's been lying, the public will never ever have anything proven, the court will never prove anything real or fake. Providing this, the public will be left with an option to either believe Timothy or believe Melanie or not give a damn about it, and nobody will ever know what happened in that bedroom "for real". 

"Innocent until proven guilty" has nothing to do with the public's perception of Melanie. "Innocent until proven guilty" is an ancient cocnept of the law system, not of the public life. What is happening between Timothy and Melanie is a process of public life,  not a process of the system of law, since there's hardly a chance the court will consider this case.

In a very rational and emotionless world you could expect a reaction like this: "ok, some lady claims she was raped by her best friend, but her best friend denies it. This happened in their bedroom and there's no evidence to provide proof to either of the sides, so Imma wait while the court/policemen say something and unleash my reaction after the court rules in somebody's favour." 

However, the world is neither rational nor emotionless, especially in the age of the super-speed internet and social media. The reaction to such news/claims/accusations will always be emotional and irrational and feeling-driven, and people will choose to unleash emotions without the court telling them if it's right or if it's wrong, especially since everybody can clearly see the court will not take the case into consideration, since physical proof in the cases of rape can almost never be presented. 

Once again, unless either Timothy or Melaine decided to say she was lying, the public would be waiting for the facts and proof in vain. This, however, can't stop people from either supporting Timothy or supporting Melanie, because it is an emotional and feeling-driven world we live in and everybody has the right to express and voice either their compassion and care for the victim, or their doubt and scepticism. 

There are countless arguments both sides can provide, and that's why the debates about rape culture are fierce with every single case made public.  Some say love-making and sexual behaviour have been non-verbalized for centuries, and not every person in the world starts sex by asking "Do you agree to get involved into a consensual love-making with me?" and by simultaneously taping his/her partner respond "yes" just so that there is "proof" that it was really consensual. Indeed, sometimes people just start making out, and then the stuff goes on. Furthermore, there are millions of situations that happen every day on this planet when people get drunk/high and hook up with someone and the following day they regret it so much and have this nasty feeling that doesn't let them gain inner harmony, and it would be easier to blame it on somebody rather than to accept that it was a mutual mistake. 

However, since we're looking into this one particular case, there are also better ways to hook up with someone you're interested in than by seducing her with weed smoking and sexual talks that last until early morning. Just like people keep saying that Timothy could've hit Melanie on the face with that sex toy of hers and then run out of the room, let's accept that Melanie could've found better ways to express her affection for Timothy, especially since they were close friends. Melanie could've given her flowers, asked her out on a date, idk, given her presents and taken more time in expressing her affection, like a week, not just two nights of "let's hook up, your bf doesn't need to now, here's some weed, can I touch your arm?" :air: 

To sum up, I just would love to give a piece of advice to everyone, and this advice is in no direct way related to this Timothy/Melanie case, although I, too, will be talking about situations where people are not forcefully abused, like are not tied/captured by their rapists and not threatened with guns or other weapons, etc.

The advice:

the era of sexual liberty which we are blessed to live in gives us a lot of opportunities and freedom, but more freedom always comes hand-in-hand with more responsibility. Try to remember that our world, although the most beautiful place in the Solar system, is still far from safe, far from being populated only by good-hearted, nice and understanding people who will never dare to exploit you. There is always a chance, sadly, that you could come across people who are more cruel/violent than you and who do not take "no" for an answer. If you say "no" to someone and this person doesn't understand, try to somehow escape the instant, to leave this person's presence, no matter if he/she is your friend, relative or working partner, and move into a safer place, if, obviously, your physical freedom of motion and movement is not restrained. I know this may sound banal and obvious, but I think this is what parents need to start telling their kids.

Beforetime, in the post-AIDS era, parents just thought it was their top responsibility to tell their children to have "safe sex", use condom, etc. Now we need to teach everybody that getting to a safer place once your "no" has been ignored is the first thing that must be on your mind, no matter how funny, giggle-worthy, messy or unserious the situation between you and this person may seem, no matter how long you've known each other, etc. Learn this rule by heart just like you've learned the traffic rule of crossing the road and green/red light. And once in a safer place, you will have the chance to contact for help and to think of the ways to deal with this person in the future. Stay safe!

:kara: 

 

 

 

 

I've been given an essay to read :omg:

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I'm not siding with either one, but I find it odd that Timothy's single is all of a sudden promoted on top of her twitter. :awkney:

BYE
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Bloody
6 minutes ago, Phlop said:

I'm not siding with either one, but I find it odd that Timothy's single is all of a sudden promoted on top of her twitter. :awkney:

That's what I was thinking too when I checked her social medias..twitter and isnta.

She gained many followers and got some exposure. And she has a single out. These things make me kind of doubtful for her story and intentions..

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Regina George

I’m sorry to anyone who ever experienced sexual assault and I’m sorry cuz I was really ignorant in this thread. I just wanted to be on both sides at the same time and it didn’t work.. sorry for my ignorance.. I know what rape is and unfortunately I know what it does to a person mentally. I never meant to hurt anyone and I am honestly sorry if I did. I tried to say that for some people, no is not enough but it came out as ignorant and hurtful. 

Hopefully everyone will learn from this situation. 

Once again - sorry. 

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Monsterish

Imagine if one of this terrible stories came from a person related to the Haus, who claimed he/she was raped for Gaga :emma: I can already imagine, tbh 

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RodeckDanny

OMG that story was horrifying, I was never attracted to Melanie nor her music but I wonder if my likes would change because of this... hmm

Listen to my debut pop single 'Want You Bad'! (link on Insta)
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