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Gay men hate femme gay men

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Anveeroy   Paws Up 8,070
Anveeroy

I used think Westerners are very progressive but after reading people comments :awkney:

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Gardevoir   Paws Up 9,882
Gardevoir
1 minute ago, M Monstre said:

I don't think that he's implying that they're not men. Perhaps the way he said it could have been better, but what he's saying is that he just doesn't have an attraction to feminine guys. 

I personally don't think that that's discriminatory, but a preference. I'm a semi-feminine guy myself ("semi" cause while I'm not super feminine, I sometimes am), and I completely understand wanting a more "masculine" man in a relationship. 

No one's saying that they're not men. Of course they are, and if feminine guys want to be feminine, they should. More power to them. They should be able to live how they want to live and not be discriminated against. I don't think anyone here is straight up devaluing the fact that they are men, but they're just expressing their opinions on liking more masculine men.

The one thing that concerns me is when he said this: Femme turn me off.. because I’m gay for a reason. I want a MAN. I don’t get how if I’m with someone who happens to have some feminine qualities that does not make me a gay man. Like if I like dic and he likes dic and he still considers himself a cis man how does that make us any less gay :what:

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tellemhone   Paws Up 2,656
tellemhone

This is not about masculinity, it's about people having preferences

But to say feminine men just aren't men is :awkney:

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 MAC   Paws Up 1,621
MAC

Not surprised by this to be honest but it is disappointing.  I find it so funny how being/acting masculine is so important to a lot of men.  I would say I am pretty masculine in the way I act, etc but it's not me trying to be that way.  I like a lot of women's products more than the "for men" products.  I don't really care if things are not typically for men.  Why do people care so much.  Pfft.

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M Monstre   Paws Up 20,610
M Monstre
1 minute ago, Gardevoir said:

The one thing that concerns me is when he said this: Femme turn me off.. because I’m gay for a reason. I want a MAN. I don’t get how if I’m with someone who happens to have some feminine qualities that does not make me a gay man. Like if I like dic and he likes dic and he still considers himself a cis man how does that make us any less gay :what:

I absolutely understand that, and I agree. A gay man is a gay man, whether you're feminine or masculine. A gay man is a gay man because they like guys. I agree that the whole "I want a MAN" mentality and wordage is very off-putting, but I understand what he's trying to say.

He just prefers more masculine guys, and that's fine. Again, I don't think his intention was to insult or bash feminine gay guys, even though it definitely comes across that way. I think all he's saying is that he prefers masculine guys over feminine ones, and that's okay. 

I don't see this as discrimination unless someone is actively saying "Feminine guys are disgusting," or "Feminine guys make the community look bad."

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Bebe   Paws Up 12,742
Bebe
3 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

I don't think that he's implying that they're not men. Perhaps the way he said it could have been better, but what he's saying is that he just doesn't have an attraction to feminine guys. 

I personally don't think that that's discriminatory, but a preference. I'm a semi-feminine guy myself ("semi" cause while I'm not super feminine, I sometimes am), and I completely understand wanting a more "masculine" man in a relationship. 

I don't believe anyone here is saying that they're not men. Of course they are, and if feminine guys want to be feminine, they should. More power to them. They should be able to live how they want to live and not be discriminated against. I don't think anyone here is straight up devaluing the fact that they are men, but they're just expressing their opinions on liking more masculine men.

Of course he is implying they're not true men.

"Femme turn me off.. because I’m gay for a reason. I want a MAN"

What else does that imply? He's gay, he wants a MAN - Femme men turn him off because they apparently don't fit the bill of being a real, or true, man.

It's far more deep than preference, obviously those men who are rejecting femme men to have a preference for masculine men, but that doesn't mean that preference isn't problematic...

71% of gay men said they were turned off by femme men.... That's a crazy huge amount of gay men. This isn't some "Oh, I have this weird thing for guys with green eyes! They're so cute!" type thing - this is a majority of gay men actively repulsed by men who don't adhere to specific gender expectations... 
 

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tellemhone   Paws Up 2,656
tellemhone
2 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Of course he is implying they're not true men.

"Femme turn me off.. because I’m gay for a reason. I want a MAN"

What else does that imply? He's gay, he wants a MAN - Femme men turn him off because they apparently don't fit the bill of being a real, or true, man.

It's far more deep than preference, obviously those men who are rejecting femme men to have a preference for masculine men, but that doesn't mean that preference isn't problematic...

71% of gay men said they were turned off by femme men.... That's a crazy huge amount of gay men. This isn't some "Oh, I have this weird thing for guys with green eyes! They're so cute!" type thing - this is a majority of gay men actively repulsed by men who don't adhere to specific gender expectations... 
 

Is that really a bad thing?

Some people just crave a real wild man and there's nothing wrong with it

 

Edited by tellemhone
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Robo Ga   Paws Up 6,239
Robo Ga

Masculinity and femininity are a spectrum, it's all related to inherent sexism... aka femininity being equated to weakness, etc...

It's fine to have a sexual preference for masculine or feminine guys but it's NEVER ok to discriminate gay men who act feminine. THAT is derogatory and rooted in gay self-hatred and societal homophobia. 

All people, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum, deserve respect. And if you are secure with yourself, it doesn't matter to you if other people are overtly feminine or masculine. 

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Yuuri   Paws Up 14,389
Yuuri

Gaga is one of those to blame. "I crave a real wild man. I'm strung out on John Wayne." 

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MetalliGa   Paws Up 6,025
MetalliGa

A much worse is forced masculinity.

Just be you. Be your gender really

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Bradley   Paws Up 18,404
Bradley

It's like blaming cis-men for having a preference over pretty/feminine women.

Edited by Bradley
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M Monstre   Paws Up 20,610
M Monstre
10 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Of course he is implying they're not true men.

"Femme turn me off.. because I’m gay for a reason. I want a MAN"

What else does that imply? He's gay, he wants a MAN - Femme men turn him off because they apparently don't fit the bill of being a real, or true, man.

It's far more deep than preference, obviously those men who are rejecting femme men to have a preference for masculine men, but that doesn't mean that preference isn't problematic...

71% of gay men said they were turned off by femme men.... That's a crazy huge amount of gay men. This isn't some "Oh, I have this weird thing for guys with green eyes! They're so cute!" type thing - this is a majority of gay men actively repulsed by men who don't adhere to specific gender expectations... 
 

I don't know what his preferences are or what he likes or dislikes. If he indeed means it in that way, I vehemently disagree with that. I understand what you're saying and I completely agree. Feminine men aren't "less of a man" than masculine men, absolutely, however, I do think there is a line between having a preference and being discriminatory.

I think it heavily depends on the situation and the context in which it is worded because right now, there are two different situations going on. There's the situation in which gay men are not attracted to feminine gay men, and the situation where gay men say that feminine gay men are bad for the community.

In my opinion, there's a line between saying, "Oh, I'm just not attracted to you" and saying "Feminine men aren't 'man' enough."

EDIT - @Robo Ga put it beautifully when he said that masculinity and femininity fall on a spectrum. People just have a preference over who they're attracted to based on that spectrum. That's not discriminatory. What is discriminatory and degrading is when you start insulting and degrading people because of how feminine or masculine they are.

Edited by M Monstre
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Gardevoir   Paws Up 9,882
Gardevoir

I don’t even know what is even considered to be a “masc” man like what kind of attributes does a person have to have to be considered a MAN :selena: I know some guys who are beefy yet they are also the biggest queens I have ever met, like why not just say you are into guys who like sports or are athletic or have a more reserved personality idk that’s my onion

Edited by Gardevoir
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Bebe   Paws Up 12,742
Bebe
Just now, tellemhone said:

Is that really a bad thing?

Some people just crave a real wild man and there's nothing wrong with it

 

Yeah, the fact that over 70% of gay men are repulsed by guys that don't adhere to strict gender expectations is a bad thing... That's a pretty clear indication that a vast majority of even gay men (who are unavoidably breaking gender norms and expectations by merely existing) are so ingrained into idolising this cis-sexist heteronormative ideal of what a man should be that they are actually repulsed by people who are either unable to conform or choose not to conform to these harmful societal expectations.

If we lived in an equal society in which gender performance didn't matter then you're right - it wouldn't matter if some guys liked a 'real wild man'. What's problematic is that on an aggregate level femme men are seen as less attractive and as actually somehow 'wrong' and 'harmful'. What's problematic is that we know that these cis-sexist, heteronormative ideals are harmful to the LGBT community and yet even a large percentage of gay men are contributing to this restrictive and harmful culture that pressures men and women to fit into narrow gender roles while punishing and alienating those who do not or cannot conform to these narrow roles.

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