GoT actor joked about rape, video resurfaces among Hollywood scandal

[Dayum 240]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

What did he do

He groped a woman's breast on TRL.

[Supersonic 49,375]

10 minutes ago, Dayum said:

Inb4 Inb4 Inb4 Inb4....

Preemption don't make your arguments right  

For me, I think everything can be joked about, at the same time still condemning the real issue. Making a joke does not say I condone this action you have my permission to do whatever.

It might be a bad joke, but worse still to restrict people from voicing out their opinions. 

Actually wrong. From a sociological and scientifc standpoint, jokes are instrumental in testing out how far you can go in exposing your personal opinions while you are interacting with a group. They're predestined for this role, because if you're validated in laughter, you can keep on getting more crass without the fear of social exclusion. If they're flopping, you can tack a "It wasn't meant that serious, I was just joking." onto it and you'll evade any negative reprecussions.

Any joke that anybody cracks is actually an unintentional soul striptease. And if anybody does crack sexist, racist or misogynist jokes, it means they harbour the general message of the joke as an actual serious opinion in their minds. Whether that's an intentional "I know better, but I want to be an asshole" or a "Unaddressed internal issues that happened because I was raised wrong and exposed to wrong things as a child" situation, is up to the person.

[Dayum 240]

2 minutes ago, Supersonic said:

Actually wrong. From a sociological and scientifc standpoint, jokes are instrumental in testing out how far you can go in exposing your personal opinions while you are interacting with a group. They're predestined for this role, because if you're validated in laughter, you can keep on getting more crass without the fear of social exclusion. If they're flopping, you can tack a "It wasn't meant that serious, I was just joking." onto it and you'll evade any negative reprecussions.

Any joke that anybody cracks is actually an unintentional soul striptease. And anybody DOES crack sexist, racist or misogynist jokes, it means they harbour the general message of the joke as an actual serious opinion in their minds. Whether that's an intentional "I know better, but I want to be an asshole" or a "Unaddressed internal issues that happened because I was raised wrong and exposed to wrong things as a child" situation is up to the person.

Can you give an example? I can imagine someone saying what they think is right, but due to the social context and circumstance, it appears to be a joke. That I think would more be a statement of intent than a joke but being objectively viewed as a joke.

I'm sure you would not disagree that every joke a comedian makes is actually stripteasing their souls. 

If an old white man goes into a gun shop and purchases 2 guns, the shopkeeper asks: "what you gon' do with these?" And he says: "I'm firing up Las Vegas." Does that mean he approves of it? Or does that mean he is going to do it? 

Anyway, I don't see a problem in getting more crass with jokes without fear of social exclusion. The problem is does joking actually mean that that is what a person thinks is right or what a person will actually do?

[Haroon 49,685]

Eeek and the laughter that followed  

What he said wasn't right and the generalising of cis men also isn't right, it doesn't have to be one or the other and this shouldn't be about having to pick or anything  Like come on let's get back on topic about what he said which is what the topic is actually about  

[LadyLuca 2,315]

38 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

There's a difference between actual rape culture and a sarcastic joke meant in dark humour. Granted, not everyone will find this stuff funny but even if you do, most people (I hope) are laughing for the right reasons. And that is: "Wow, that's tasteless, but in context of the character, it can be funny in a dark way." Don't pretend you've never made a tasteless joke or laughed at one. As long as you're laughing for the right reasons, it's ok. And this is coming from a woman. I know this comes really out of left field but I have laughed at rape jokes. It depends on how you tell it and how good a comedian you are. The man who made this concept funny was the late, great George Carlin. Any comedian that starts off with: "I can prove to you that rape is funny" must be awful, right? But from the very first joke, we see where he's going with this. He was a smart man who put social commentary into his work and by making rape jokes, he was actually explaining the absurdity of rape apologists and how we view rape. He also goes into what's acceptable to say and not to say in today's society (and this show was done years ago and it's still relevant):

He gives a brilliant breakdown of why it's ok to joke about anything if you do it right. Comedians can make a lot of awful things funny as long as they present themselves the right way. I can take a sexist joke from a male comedian provided he presents himself in a self-depracting way, is being sarcastic, uses his joke to make social commentary, etc. The concept of "if you laughed, that must mean you think it's right" is so outdated and simplistic and doesn't take in any of the nuances of humour.

At the end of the day, it's your right not to find it funny or find it offensive. But to say a bit of dark humour spreads rape culture is absurd. How about we go after real rapists who laugh about their actions rather than targeting an innocent actor who just saying something tastless that he immediately regretted. Because it's a huge difference. The poor guy's likely worried his career's going to be in trouble now, hence his grovelling apology, which still wasn't enough for some. We really can't be policing jokes, everyone. It's one of the few things we have left in this awful world right now.

This woman was so out of line for adding in that all cis men are trash. I'm a woman and a feminist and I would never say such things. It just goes to show that SJWs don't want social acceptance and equal rights, they want better rights. Generalising an oppressed group? Awful. Generalising a privileged group? Knock yourself out.

Vodka already put it down really well to you. I'm actually surprised that you didn't know what it was seeing as you're up to date on all the other social jargon. Virtue signalling is when someone does a good deed but does it publicly, wanting admiration from others for their virtuous actions. Doing this makes us wonder if the person is genuinely concerned or if they're just looking for brownie points from SJWs and to present themselves as a nice person (while not mentioning any of their flaws). It's essentially the SJW equivalent of a mating call for attention. Basically, virtue signallers live for making other people feel bad and themselves to feel superior. It's an exercise in narcissism, not genuine concern. And I can assure you it's not just Trump supporters and Twitter racists who use this term. Its become a great term to describe the bleeding heart PC crowd that has been annoying the hell out of most of us for years but we could never put down into a catchphrase. And I say all this as a liberal.

Nice words. I totally agree here. Intresting comedian, in germany we had something similar. Chris Tall- complaining on how we exclude people from jokes because its offending. (ofcourse this example does not fit into this thread)

It goes in the direction of making fun of handicaped people. (and that they are okay with it) and like you say, its the way and the context of the jokes presentation.

 

 

[Supersonic 49,375]

14 minutes ago, Dayum said:

Can you give an example? I can imagine someone saying what they think is right, but due to the social context and circumstance, it appears to be a joke. That I think would more be a statement of intent than a joke but being objectively viewed as a joke.

I'm sure you would not disagree that every joke a comedian makes is actually stripteasing their souls. 

If an old white man goes into a gun shop and purchases 2 guns, the shopkeeper asks: "what you gon' do with these?" And he says: "I'm firing up Las Vegas." Does that mean he approves of it? Or does that mean he is going to do it? 

Anyway, I don't see a problem in getting more crass with jokes without fear of social exclusion. The problem is does joking actually mean that that is what a person thinks is right or what a person will actually do?

A great example is the SYG thread of ATRL for example. It was created by the Moderators to have like a "warning-free" zone with very little regulations where the members can drag popstars for low sales, bad touring receipts etc. However, SYG nowadays isn't just about sales, receipts and what not. It very regularly produces statements like "RATga should move back to New York soon, I heard her dad's restaurant got closed again for health regulations. It would be a shame if she didn't croak while the vermin exterminator sprays the restaurant down with poison." or "Fadty Perry should just commit. She has nothing worth living for, she can't keep a man, nobody loves and her desperate attempt at getting attention for her new lesbian haircut failed too."

For your example: It might not mean that the old white man wants to shoot up Vegas, but it sure as hell means that there is at least some resentment against humanity in him that would make him absolutely not sad if that ever happened by chance.

IMO (not proven scientifically) jokes in those situation are instrumental to developing your opinions and pretty much only happen when you're mentally conflicted about something. It's like you're trying to say "I don't know what to think about this, I'm tending to think this way, what do you say?" and an encouraging or discouraging response can heavily influence your opinion on the topic in further conversation.

 

[StrawberryBlond 13,262]

13 minutes ago, Supersonic said:

Actually wrong. From a sociological and scientifc standpoint, jokes are instrumental in testing out how far you can go in exposing your personal opinions while you are interacting with a group. They're predestined for this role, because if you're validated in laughter, you can keep on getting more crass without the fear of social exclusion. If they're flopping, you can tack a "It wasn't meant that serious, I was just joking." onto it and you'll evade any negative reprecussions.

Any joke that anybody cracks is actually an unintentional soul striptease. And if anybody does crack sexist, racist or misogynist jokes, it means they harbour the general message of the joke as an actual serious opinion in their minds. Whether that's an intentional "I know better, but I want to be an asshole" or a "Unaddressed internal issues that happened because I was raised wrong and exposed to wrong things as a child" situation, is up to the person.

Perhaps not everything needs to be from a sociological and scientific standpoint? Perhaps it just needs basic logic? Jokes can reveal hidden biases...and sometimes not. As I said before, it's overly simplistic and outdated to assume that laughing at something means you think it's right. Humour is so much more complex than you give it credit for. As someone who's a fan of a lot of comedians, I can clarify this. I've studied the ways in how comedians tell jokes and even read a female feminist comedian's book about how you can get away with saying outrageous stuff as long as you "give the audience permission to laugh." She delved into the ideas I mentioned before. She also brought up how it's ok to make jokes about your own group, that it was ok for fat people to make jokes about fat people and women to make jokes about women. So, if a woman can say that, perhaps you need to look at comedy in a different way.

Look, a lot of people love Chris Rock's famous jokes about "there's black people and then there's n-words." Most people in his audience were black and they were laughing their asses off. I find that joke funny for the right reasons - while I would never call a black person that word, I know that there are ones out there who live up to the stereotype. And because, and this bit may surprise you, but I know a lot of white people who act in the same way he describes black people as acting. I'm laughing because it's so true - there are certain people like this in society, of all races. And they give the good people from their group a bad name. Unfortunately, I'm sure there were some white racists who took the joke as a validation to say the n-word and then say they were "only talking about the bad ones" when they said it. And I'm sure they found the joke funny because they were thinking: "Yes, all black people are like this!" when that wasn't the point at all. We can't help it if some people will be ignorant. You just have to hope that people laugh for the right reasons.

Dark comedy isn't for everyone. I get that. But if you don't like it, just move on. But don't try to forbid people from saying anything that you personally don't find funny. And instead of just "excuse me no'ing" me if you disagree, perhaps tell me why I'm wrong. Nothing changes if you don't explain.

[Dayum 240]

13 minutes ago, Supersonic said:

A great example is the SYG thread of ATRL for example. It was created by the Moderators to have like a "warning-free" zone with very little regulations where the members can drag popstars for low sales, bad touring receipts etc. However, SYG nowadays isn't just about sales, receipts and what not. It very regularly produces statements like "RATga should move back to New York soon, I heard her dad's restaurant got closed again for health regulations. It would be a shame if she didn't croak while the vermin exterminator sprays the restaurant down with poison." or "Fadty Perry should just commit. She has nothing worth living for, she can't keep a man, nobody loves and her desperate attempt at getting attention for her new lesbian haircut failed too."

For your example: It might not mean that the old white man wants to shoot up Vegas, but it sure as hell means that there is at least some resentment against humanity in him that would make him absolutely not sad if that ever happened by chance.

IMO (not proven scientifically) jokes in those situation are instrumental to developing your opinions and pretty much only happen when you're mentally conflicted about something. It's like you're trying to say "I don't know what to think about this, I'm tending to think this way, what do you say?" and an encouraging or discouraging response can heavily influence your opinion on the topic in further conversation.

 

It's hard to apply this theory of mental conflict, especially in your example of SYG. In that case, it seems to me clear that they have made up their mind that Lady Gaga and Katy Perry is bad. If it so happens that the SYG thread was transposed into Gagadaily, and the posts gets 1000 excuse me nos, I don't think the user is going to be phased by the invalidation, in fact I think they would rejoice in stirring up so much anger. If they happen to get 1000 paws up, that also wouldn't have had much of a validation impact. In fact, I think laughter is just a signal to the person whether he can continue the topic with the same group of people or not. If he cannot, then he just goes onto a different group. His mind is already settled.

[Morphine Prince 96,073]

27 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 And instead of just "excuse me no'ing" me if you disagree, perhaps tell me why I'm wrong. Nothing changes if you don't explain.

Nothing will change if people explain either. People tend to stand firm in their beliefs. 

The EMN button exists to show disapproval and people don’t have to explain why. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,262]

Just now, Morphine Prince said:

Nothing will change if people explain either. People tend to stand firm in their beliefs. 

The EMN button exists to show disapproval and people don’t have to explain why. 

True, but some people can change if they're educated and/or persuaded with an overwhelmingly intelligent argument. I've experienced that before. We've all experienced that whenever we were ignorant about anything. Humans are an adaptable species.

Yes, the button exists to show disapproval but that's all it possibly can do if that's as far as you take it. I've always felt the urge to tell people why I disagree, for then I might make them change their minds. If you just EMN someone and that's all, it's common to go away with the assumption that they have nothing interesting to say back. If you're passionate in your beliefs, you'll happily defend them until the cows come home.

[Morphine Prince 96,073]

1 minute ago, StrawberryBlond said:

True, but some people can change if they're educated and/or persuaded with an overwhelmingly intelligent argument. I've experienced that before. We've all experienced that whenever we were ignorant about anything. Humans are an adaptable species.

Yes, the button exists to show disapproval but that's all it possibly can do if that's as far as you take it. I've always felt the urge to tell people why I disagree, for then I might make them change their minds. If you just EMN someone and that's all, it's common to go away with the assumption that they have nothing interesting to say back. If you're passionate in your beliefs, you'll happily defend them until the cows come home.

It gets repetitive and boring after a while. Plus it depends on what one perceives as an intelligent argument. EMN takes care of all of that, I wish Facebook had a dislike button. I suppose the “anger” reaction may serve as one. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,262]

Just now, Morphine Prince said:

It gets repetitive and boring after a while. Plus it depends on what one perceives as an intelligent argument. EMN takes care of all of that, I wish Facebook had a dislike button. I suppose the “anger” reaction may serve as one. 

I'm just asking for some form of conversation back. A sign that you've actually taken in what I have to say, even if you disagree. If you just EMN and walk away, how do I even know if you read everything I said? Whereas if you quote it and omit certain parts, it shows you actually paid attention. Some people just hit the button just to be annoying at times, I feel.

[Werk 13,165]

Welp guess I need to find another hot lifeguard then  

He was soo hot in Baywatch 

 

[PeachJug 2,927]

4 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

There's a difference between actual rape culture and a sarcastic joke meant in dark humour. Granted, not everyone will find this stuff funny but even if you do, most people (I hope) are laughing for the right reasons. And that is: "Wow, that's tasteless, but in context of the character, it can be funny in a dark way." Don't pretend you've never made a tasteless joke or laughed at one. As long as you're laughing for the right reasons, it's ok. And this is coming from a woman. I know this comes really out of left field but I have laughed at rape jokes. It depends on how you tell it and how good a comedian you are. The man who made this concept funny was the late, great George Carlin. Any comedian that starts off with: "I can prove to you that rape is funny" must be awful, right? But from the very first joke, we see where he's going with this. He was a smart man who put social commentary into his work and by making rape jokes, he was actually explaining the absurdity of rape apologists and how we view rape. He also goes into what's acceptable to say and not to say in today's society (and this show was done years ago and it's still relevant):

He gives a brilliant breakdown of why it's ok to joke about anything if you do it right. Comedians can make a lot of awful things funny as long as they present themselves the right way. I can take a sexist joke from a male comedian provided he presents himself in a self-depracting way, is being sarcastic, uses his joke to make social commentary, etc. The concept of "if you laughed, that must mean you think it's right" is so outdated and simplistic and doesn't take in any of the nuances of humour.

At the end of the day, it's your right not to find it funny or find it offensive. But to say a bit of dark humour spreads rape culture is absurd. How about we go after real rapists who laugh about their actions rather than targeting an innocent actor who just saying something tastless that he immediately regretted. Because it's a huge difference. The poor guy's likely worried his career's going to be in trouble now, hence his grovelling apology, which still wasn't enough for some. We really can't be policing jokes, everyone. It's one of the few things we have left in this awful world right now.

This woman was so out of line for adding in that all cis men are trash. I'm a woman and a feminist and I would never say such things. It just goes to show that SJWs don't want social acceptance and equal rights, they want better rights. Generalising an oppressed group? Awful. Generalising a privileged group? Knock yourself out. And we wonder why society is so nutso right now? And why the far right has grown? And why Trump got into office? Wake up and take a look at the obvious.

Vodka already put it down really well to you. I'm actually surprised that you didn't know what it was seeing as you're up to date on all the other social jargon. Virtue signalling is when someone does a good deed but does it publicly, wanting admiration from others for their virtuous actions. Doing this makes us wonder if the person is genuinely concerned or if they're just looking for brownie points from SJWs and to present themselves as a nice person (while not mentioning any of their flaws). It's essentially the SJW equivalent of a mating call for attention. Basically, virtue signallers live for making other people feel bad and themselves to feel superior. It's an exercise in narcissism, not genuine concern. And I can assure you it's not just Trump supporters and Twitter racists who use this term. Its become a great term to describe the bleeding heart PC crowd that has been annoying the hell out of most of us for years but we could never put down into a catchphrase. And I say all this as a liberal.

couldn't agree more. not everything is said with the intention of hurting people, and at some point the world audience is going to have to meet the speaker halfway. comedians, actors, celebrities, etc cant always babyproof what they say. everyone should pick and choose their fights. dont hate on an actor who made a joke, hate on someone who TRULY sees nothing wrong with rape

[Lady1Gaga2 272]

5 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

True, but some people can change if they're educated and/or persuaded with an overwhelmingly intelligent argument. I've experienced that before. We've all experienced that whenever we were ignorant about anything. Humans are an adaptable species.

Yes, the button exists to show disapproval but that's all it possibly can do if that's as far as you take it. I've always felt the urge to tell people why I disagree, for then I might make them change their minds. If you just EMN someone and that's all, it's common to go away with the assumption that they have nothing interesting to say back. If you're passionate in your beliefs, you'll happily defend them until the cows come home.

I think the joke shows an underlying lack of regard for the severity of rape, and possibly for women. Sure, the joke objectifies women, but couldn't he have made a joke about how he liked having so many beautiful women in the cast, as opposed to making rape seem like an everyday occurrence that should be tolerated.