What "Went Wrong" During ARTPOP Era?

[bobbby 939]

I know this probably something that everyone has a different opinion about but it's been bugging me lately. After Coachella, the more peripheral Little Monsters and stan Twitter at large seems to be super into Cure and the darker/pop imagery she was embracing the last two weekends—but I can't help but think that part of the reason she went the direction she did with Joanne was due to the "backlash" against ARTPOP. 

I'm not trying to do a Joanne v. ARTPOP thread, and I personally love both albums but I just genuinely am curious as to everyone's theories here. Can it really all be blamed on management / that DWUW kerfluffle or do you think there was more to it? Just a changing of what was working on radio? I'm just watching ArtRAVE Paris for the first time and am living for it, so it's just weird to think back about how the era was so high-energy, so pop, so flamboyant, but also seen as somewhat of a "flop." 

FWIW: I became somewhat of a dormant Little Monster during ARTPOP, so a lot of this is just trying to retrace what happened while I was pretending to not be a super gay Gaga fan for a few years there. 

 

Edit: Also, oddly enough it seems like a lot of people at Coachella loved Sexx Dreams and Venus (non fans) which adds to the confusion about why that era wasn't lit then. 

[thediamxnds 275]

I've been wondering the same

im confused as to what was the "mess" that everyone talks about that happened during the ARTPOP era

[GhettoFabulous 18,501]

•Troy left ha 

•Broken promises 

•Backlash from the media+ everyone 

• The album did good but not as good as her other albums 

• G.U.Y flopped 

• Gaga was depressed 

•Dwuw messes 

• The messy interviews (no shade no tea)

correct me If I'm wrong in some places 

[RonnieGagz 4,300]

Basically everything: The promo, the looks, her mental exhaustion, the media.....

Also: "DWYW"

[bobbby 939]

Just now, RonnieGagz said:

Basically everything: The promo, the looks, her mental exhaustion, the media.....

Also: "DWYW"

ugh my b girl I swear I thought there was a u there

[RonnieGagz 4,300]

1 minute ago, bobbby said:

ugh my b girl I swear I thought there was a u there

Mess 

[IllumiMark 974]

1 minute ago, TokyoGhoul said:

I've been wondering the same

im confused as to what was the "mess" that everyone talks about that happened during the ARTPOP era

The mess that everyone talks about must be the second single decision between Venus/DWUW (which ended up with DWUW being canceled + the choice of a completely new song as second single, G.U.Y.). Also, management issues.

 

However, I loved ARTPOP.

[BloodyJudas 2,758]

Let me give you my two cents:

1. People got tired of her gimmicks and controversies with the arrival of Alejandro video and that's when it all started. She was still the biggest pop star back then so the road to underperformance was really long.

2. Then came Born This Way-the gay anthem (some people got scared that they would be regarded gay if they listened to Gaga).

3. The Judas controversy was a nail to her casket. She got so many haters for it.

4.She changed her music style with BTW -it was a very epic work of art. Gaga didn't sing about parties, getting drunk at the club anymore-she started getting serious and sometimes pompous-it turned people off. Her YOUTUBE/streaming power started to decline with The Edge of Glory Video. Compare the views  BTW and ET videos have gotten.

5. She praised her back-then-unreleased work to heaven calling it the work of the millenium. She came off as arrogant, stuck-up,pompous and bitchy- and we all know she is the sweetest person ever. I have no idea why she carried herself like that.

6. Adele- she became an overnight success and she became a new sensation and I remember many poeple saying Adele's music is pure gold and Gaga's is trash. They were constantly compared plus because of 21 BTW did not seem to be a great seller as we know it is.

7.Her hip injury-there were rumors it was intentional as the shows had not sold out and we know it was bullshit.

8.She waited too long to release ARTPOP. It's a well-produced albums with many potential hits but I guess it sounded a bit outdated in 2013. It would have smashed one year earlier.

9. Applause vs Roar ( pitting two women against each other)

10. Bad management

 

 

[bobbby 939]

2 minutes ago, IllumiMark said:

The mess that everyone talks about must be the second single decision between Venus/DWUW (which ended up with DWUW being canceled + the choice of a completely new song as second single, G.U.Y.). Also, management issues.

 

However, I loved ARTPOP.

Related. Was the Christina Aguilera version ever actually poised to replace the R. Kelly one or was that ship already sailed? 

[xoxo cupcakke 4,781]

Management, marketing, lack of DWUW video, low emphasis on streaming

[The Fame Joanne 5,985]

BTW turned some people away bc she was seen as an artist for gays. Then ARTPOP didn't do as good bc of that. The media and critics started to bash her bc she was an easy target now and then Troy left her

[Roland 241]

I think the media added to the perception that it was a huge flop but also there's the fact that she was coming from her last album which (although) discounted sold a million copies (she could never replicate this for her fourth album). 

DWUW would have been a hit had they managed to release the video so this must have been frustrating for Gaga and obviously the fans.

She ended up grossing 83 million USD on the tour and the album sold well in the end.

I'm pretty sure she still listens to people in Interscope. She's no fool. She wants creative control but she's willing to compromise to a certain extent. She knows she needs to keep them onside if she wants to extend her career and reach millions and sell out tours in the years ahead which I think she does. She'll happily play dive bars if everything goes to s**t but she's also too clever and versatile enough with different genres to let that happen and she is also in a much more zen place since ARTPOP. People like Elton have helped her and she talks a lot about therapy. She's less likely to go on a Twitter rant these days for instance (*apart from dissing Trump!).

Pretty sure she's definitely not going to go ahead and release a surprise metal album or something very left of field after Joanne (even though she would definitely have the talent and balls to do so!).

Also I'm pretty certain they more or less knew the Superbowl was hers for 2017 by early 2016 and therefore Interscope were happy to not bother her/put pressure on her about releasing a more stripped back album for her fifth knowing she could capitalise on the post-Superbowl buzz with a more mainstream pop record at some stage in 2017. And in the end... it seems Joanne has done better than expected!

 

[bobbby 939]

1 minute ago, BloodyJudas said:

1. People got tired of her gimmicks and controversies with the arrival of Alejandro video and that's when it all started. She was still the biggest pop star back then so the road to underperformance was really long.

2. Then came Born This Way-the gay anthem (some people got scared that they would be regarded gay if they listened to Gaga).

Good points actually on these notes. I was still active on here through the tail end of the BTW era on my old account so I definitely remember both of those, especially Alejandro getting a bit weird (Ty Katy, I love you now girl but that blasphemy **** was stupid).

 

2 minutes ago, BloodyJudas said:

4.She changed her music style with BTW -it was a very epic work of art. Gaga didn't sing about parties, getting drunk at the club anymore-she started getting serious and sometimes pompous-it turned people off. Her YOUTUBE/streaming power started to decline with The Edge of Glory Video. Compare the views BTW and ET have gotten.

 

Also good pt. My friend and I kept calling BTW her like "Mother Teresa phase" because it was all SO meaningful all the time almost in an offputting way. 

 

5 minutes ago, BloodyJudas said:

8.She waited too long to release ARTPOP. It's a well-produced albums with many potential hits but I guess it sounded a bit outdated in 2013. It would have smashed one year earlier.

 

That's also really interesting and I hadn't have thought of. Now that you mention it, I kind of wonder if BTW and ARTPOP were switched if that would have changed things.

 

There's also just a part of me that feels like maybe people were sick and tired (Gaga included) of her one-upping herself. If she didn't wear even taller hoofs, do something even more ridiculous, people didn't even really care anymore. So maybe it was also inevitable that she had to have a little fall from grace, regardless of ARTPOP. Now, I feel like she's in a more stable spot where she can do wild **** and people love it, but she also can just belt something and people respect her the same way.

[The Fame Joanne 5,985]

18 minutes ago, IllumiMark said:

The mess that everyone talks about must be the second single decision between Venus/DWUW (which ended up with DWUW being canceled + the choice of a completely new song as second single, G.U.Y.). Also, management issues.

 

However, I loved ARTPOP.

DWUW wasn't cancelled as a single, only the video for it wasn't released. G.U.Y. was the 3rd single 

[PartySick 134,098]

Well, she entered the industry at the top. She revolutionized pop music and became an icon thanks to her first album and her second only sent her higher...but what goes up must come down

She had two choices at the peak: she could give them more pop or she could give them something meaningful. She delivered BTW which was a meaningful album that touched on a lot of political, societal, and personal topics. A ton of people were there for it but she was slowly loosing her audience. It was through no fault of her own though, I still maintain that the GP doesn't like music that makes them think  they just want lazy bops or romance ballads. Anything else and it's largely ignored.

At the end of the BTW era, it all came crashing down. She broke her hip, entered a depression, gave in to addiction, and secluded herself. Imo, that mess and the toll it took leaked over into the ARTPOP era. She butted heads with a manager that was only interested in her brand, not her artistry, and that simply didn't work out well. The second single switch, the decision to not put the DWUW video out, the poor promo for G.U.Y., it just was one mistake/trial after another.

Though looking back, I don't think any of it is even relevant anymore. Commercially, ARTPOP did fine and so did the artRAVE. The singles didn't live up to her standards but they didn't totally fail either (even Dope did well ). And what really matters, the music, is fantastic. Each song was personal, well done, and substantive...save maybe JnD and MANiCURE but even they're bops so 

Idk, tl;dr - She peaked too fast, slowly declined during BTW, crashed, and ARTPOP was about recovering from it. The Joanne era is her first stable era and I think she'll maintain what she has now for years, even decades to come