Remy Ma ENDED Nicki Minaj (Receipts)

[BROSEIDON 1,214]

7 hours ago, BloodyJudas said:

Wow I love u for saying that <3

tbh I was expecting to be dragged for saying it...I was ready 

[StrawberryBlond 13,262]

18 hours ago, Bebe said:

As I just showed though, it's normal for her  her numbers are fine....They have been like that throughout her entire career and they are pretty impressive numbers for a rapper  I'd call that a success... She is still the most successful female in the game and nobody else is close.

Kendrick also brags about how he is the greatest rapper alive and he only just scored his first top 10 hit.

Drake brags about how he is the most commercially successful rapper but he has similar stats with his features, there are his last seven features:

2 Chainz 'Big Amount' didn't chart,  French Montana 'No Shopping' #36, Gucci Mane's 'Back on Road' #81, YG "Why You Always Hatin?" #62,  PartyNextDoor 'Come and See Me' #55, Rihanna 'Work' #1, 

I ended on Work to be nice, but it's a similar trend... This isn't abnormal in the slightest for Nicki or for any commercially successful rapper. It doesn't make sense to judge her based on her features.

No Frauds hasn't been performed, it hasn't been promoted (not even by like a radio interview), it's music video came super late, it's not being treated like a lead single, it performed fine for what it is (#14)  

"She only has 3 US top tens in the 7 years she's been famous, only one per album and she's yet to have one this era"

Of her own songs sure but I mean we could count:

Super Bass, Starships, Bottoms Up, Turn Me On, Beauty And A Beat, Anaconda, Hey Mama, Dance (A$$), Bang Bang, Side To Side... 

I mean, like with her non charting features, I'm not giving her huge props for this (although I do admire her worth ethic - she is like Wayne in that respect) but she is clearly a big name whose been involved with some hit songs.

Also, she hasn't dropped an album yet... so if you're only counting her solo singles it doesn't make sense to be like 'she has yet to have one this era' - like... Of course, let her drop an album first.

Nicki Minaj is clearly able to brag about numbers, she is the most successful female rapper in the game  


"But in rap, sales and chart positions are kinda overlooked? I don't know why the double standard is applied." 

But Pop = popular music. Of course when discussing pop music it's more relevant to talk about top ten hits. Sales and chart positions are not at all overlooked in rap, they're discussed often, it's just a different scale... Katy Perry releasing a single that doesn't go top ten is one thing, Nicki Minaj being featured for 15 seconds on a single that doesn't go top ten is something totally different.

I mean look at Kendrick Lamar, he is already talked about like he is one of the greatest of all time and his album is selling very well - but he has released 4 albums and has 1 top ten hit to his name. People don't expect rappers to be releasing #1 hit after #1 hit like they do with pop artists. 

Not only is Nicki Minaj the most successful female rapper currently, you could count the number of rappers, period, that are currently more successful than Nicki on one hand. Nicki has mostly managed her top ten hits by swerving into the pop lane where you would expect more hits - she has quite a few top 20 hits to her belt as a rapper which is impressive.

Again to mention someone like Kendrick who is seen as the top of the pack currently - Before Humble, Swimming Pools was Kendrick's biggest hit at #17 (even including songs he was featured on) Nicki has had 9 solo singles that have peaked higher and too many to list if we count songs she has featured on.

We can see that rap music just falls on a different scale, Metallica are seen as one of the greatest metal bands and they are wildly successful and major touring forces - but nobody expects their lead single to go #1  It's not a double standard, it's just obvious that there are going to be different expectations in regards to each genre. A top 20 rap single is pretty impressive for most rappers and many rappers build very successful careers from top 20 hits.

We'll see what Nicki's lead single does when she starts to promote her 4th album - then we will have more of an idea about where she is at. It just doesn't make sense to judge her based on songs she is featured on. There isn't a rapper on the planet that can propel a single to #10 on the charts with a 20 second guest verse alone and you can see that in the numbers of any rapper.




One thing is very obvious, Remy hasn't 'ended her' (which is remember, the topic being discussed). Nicki is performing in a manner comparable to her other eras, she is performing in the same way she was before the feud. 

I don't count features, though. If it's not your own song, it doesn't count. That goes for everyone. Sure, it helps to keep your name out there and might make people interested in your own music but you can't claim its success for yourself unless you're the biggest name on the song, perhaps. For example, Britney hasn't been big in the UK for years, but she went to #1 here with Scream and Shout because it featured will.i.am who was having a very successful moment on with a simultaneous appearance on The Voice UK as well as the singles from his new album. In the UK, anyway, it was him that was selling the song, Britney could have been replaced with anyone and it would have had the same success. But this clearly isn't the case in every song situation. Almost all of Nicki's features involved an artist more successful than her or it was clear that they were the one selling it, so I can't count it.

I don't care if she hasn't dropped the album yet - people used to release 2, maybe 3 singles before an album came out and some artists could make them all hit top ten, so the album not being released yet doesn't mean anything. And I'd think it was the 'lead single' now. She released 3 songs on March 15 and this was the most successful, so that's probably why it was the one that was best to properly start the era with. And those songs have been out for a month and ten days and haven't made a proper dent on the charts. That's more than enough time to start something. She's been gone for a while, just come back with 3 new songs and this new one features 2 of the biggest rappers. It should be doing so much better right now. Its lack of fanfare on YouTube really surprises me.

Yes, she may be the most successful female rapper of the moment, but success goes deeper than that. I take the word 'success' in a very general way. You have to be killing it without genre restrictions to be considered generally successful in my mind. Sure, saying "Sucessful for a ___ artist" is fine, but that's not what these rappers are doing. As someone who enjoys rap, it annoys me that rappers success is lied about, fabricated and exaggerated.

The album has already started promotion. This is clearly being treated as the first single. I think putting up 3 new songs over a month ago and making a video for one of them now is the sign that your new era's started, right?

And Nicki is not performing in a manner similar to her previous eras. Back then, she had more hype, had endless views and likes and could get a hit very quickly. She's more than established herself by now, so she shouldn't be having this amount of bother with getting her first single off the ground.

[Bebe 16,562]

3 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I don't count features, though. If it's not your own song, it doesn't count. That goes for everyone. Sure, it helps to keep your name out there and might make people interested in your own music but you can't claim its success for yourself unless you're the biggest name on the song, perhaps. For example, Britney hasn't been big in the UK for years, but she went to #1 here with Scream and Shout because it featured will.i.am who was having a very successful moment on with a simultaneous appearance on The Voice UK as well as the singles from his new album. In the UK, anyway, it was him that was selling the song, Britney could have been replaced with anyone and it would have had the same success. But this clearly isn't the case in every song situation. Almost all of Nicki's features involved an artist more successful than her or it was clear that they were the one selling it, so I can't count it.

I don't care if she hasn't dropped the album yet - people used to release 2, maybe 3 singles before an album came out and some artists could make them all hit top ten, so the album not being released yet doesn't mean anything. And I'd think it was the 'lead single' now. She released 3 songs on March 15 and this was the most successful, so that's probably why it was the one that was best to properly start the era with. And those songs have been out for a month and ten days and haven't made a proper dent on the charts. That's more than enough time to start something. She's been gone for a while, just come back with 3 new songs and this new one features 2 of the biggest rappers. It should be doing so much better right now. Its lack of fanfare on YouTube really surprises me.

Yes, she may be the most successful female rapper of the moment, but success goes deeper than that. I take the word 'success' in a very general way. You have to be killing it without genre restrictions to be considered generally successful in my mind. Sure, saying "Sucessful for a ___ artist" is fine, but that's not what these rappers are doing. As someone who enjoys rap, it annoys me that rappers success is lied about, fabricated and exaggerated.

The album has already started promotion. This is clearly being treated as the first single. I think putting up 3 new songs over a month ago and making a video for one of them now is the sign that your new era's started, right?

And Nicki is not performing in a manner similar to her previous eras. Back then, she had more hype, had endless views and likes and could get a hit very quickly. She's more than established herself by now, so she shouldn't be having this amount of bother with getting her first single off the ground.

"I don't count features, though" Okay  I mean, if you are saying she is less successful then you seem to be... cause that's all we can really go on... I would say though that her features have helped with her brand power and her success again she is a rapper, so she is different from an artist like Katy Perry who wouldn't be able to get away with featuring on like five tracks in a couple of months.


"I don't care if she hasn't dropped the album yet" But you're not counting features, she hasn't released a lead single for her album, she hasn't dropped anything of the like yet you are saying she is. Your acting like suddenly she is unsuccessful based on what then?

"And I'd think it was the 'lead single' now. She released 3 songs on March 15 and this was the most successful, so that's probably why it was the one that was best to properly start the era with"

Err no, her release 3 pack from Paris was exactly that three tracks from Paris  Yeah, the first day of the release she said she would make an MV for the most successful song. This isn't a lead single for an album though... Like it just isn't. She made a video for it but she has hardly started pushing the song and supporting the song with radio deals, radio interviews, magazine covers, performances and the rest of it. Nobody is taking No Frauds as a lead single to her next album...

"Yes, she may be the most successful female rapper of the moment, but success goes deeper than that.  You have to be killing it without genre restrictions to be considered generally successful in my mind."

She reportedly made 20 million alone this year without an album or tour - she is objectively successful. So you think Metallica flopped with their lead single?  Of course not, Metallica is one of the most successful bands period. Nicki has her hits, her features are performing like they always have, her albums sell relatively well, she can embark as a headliner on a world tour, she has endorsements. I think Nicki is allowed to call herself successful and brag about her success.

"The album has already started promotion. This is clearly being treated as the first single. I think putting up 3 new songs over a month ago and making a video for one of them now is the sign that your new era's started, right?"

No, the 3 pack from Paris was never supposed to be album related.  Even the name "3 Pack From Paris" seemed to indicate only those three songs, from Paris, were being released. What promotion as started other than a music video that came like a month later? I'm telling you nobody is treating this like she released 3 singles at once to see what would be her lead single, that would be a weird strategy. There has even been discussion on the breakfast shows and on Complex on whether she should have bothered dropping a video for No Frauds considering how old the Remy/Nicki beef is now.... It's just never been thought to be album related... Nicki didn't say any of them where from an album, she didn't name any of them a lead single, she isn't going on a promotional tour promoting her single, the three songs released where a nice gift/surprise to fans  

This is like Drake releasing Charged Up and Back to Back and saying his success is dipping because they didn't reach the heights of his previous songs. They weren't lead singles, they didn't appear on any album. I mean Back to Back is considered a hit anyway by rap fans because it was played all over hip-hop radio and blasting in the clubs. Nicki did a similar thing except she released 3 songs and only one was a diss track. Comparing her to Drake whose widely seen as successful and you call him that too, Charged Up went #78 and Back to Back went #21. With Nicki No Frauds went #14, Regret In Your Tears went #61 and Changed It went #71.  I think that's pretty comparable with Drake actually and of course Drak'es next release after that was the lead single to Views "Hotline Bling" which was #1 smash.

"And Nicki is not performing in a manner similar to her previous eras. Back then, she had more hype, had endless views and likes and could get a hit very quickly. "

But she is as I've shown in the numbers   No Frauds peaked at #14 which is impressive for a rapper but also for a surprise drop without promo. It's comparable numbers to tracks like Only, Moment 4 Life, Truffle Butter, Pound The Alarm and such that are among her biggest hits. Her features are going along as usual. There is just nothing to suggest a dip in her success yet and tbh I expect a little dip from The Pinkprint.

Lets see where she is when she releases her album, then we can actually judge her based on chart performance and the rest. As of now it isn't looking like Remy 'ended her career' and she seems to be travelling along at a level of success that's comparable to other eras  

[StrawberryBlond 13,262]

17 hours ago, Bebe said:

"I don't count features, though" Okay  I mean, if you are saying she is less successful then you seem to be... cause that's all we can really go on... I would say though that her features have helped with her brand power and her success again she is a rapper, so she is different from an artist like Katy Perry who wouldn't be able to get away with featuring on like five tracks in a couple of months.


"I don't care if she hasn't dropped the album yet" But you're not counting features, she hasn't released a lead single for her album, she hasn't dropped anything of the like yet you are saying she is. Your acting like suddenly she is unsuccessful based on what then?

"And I'd think it was the 'lead single' now. She released 3 songs on March 15 and this was the most successful, so that's probably why it was the one that was best to properly start the era with"

Err no, her release 3 pack from Paris was exactly that three tracks from Paris  Yeah, the first day of the release she said she would make an MV for the most successful song. This isn't a lead single for an album though... Like it just isn't. She made a video for it but she has hardly started pushing the song and supporting the song with radio deals, radio interviews, magazine covers, performances and the rest of it. Nobody is taking No Frauds as a lead single to her next album...

"Yes, she may be the most successful female rapper of the moment, but success goes deeper than that.  You have to be killing it without genre restrictions to be considered generally successful in my mind."

She reportedly made 20 million alone this year without an album or tour - she is objectively successful. So you think Metallica flopped with their lead single?  Of course not, Metallica is one of the most successful bands period. Nicki has her hits, her features are performing like they always have, her albums sell relatively well, she can embark as a headliner on a world tour, she has endorsements. I think Nicki is allowed to call herself successful and brag about her success.

"The album has already started promotion. This is clearly being treated as the first single. I think putting up 3 new songs over a month ago and making a video for one of them now is the sign that your new era's started, right?"

No, the 3 pack from Paris was never supposed to be album related.  Even the name "3 Pack From Paris" seemed to indicate only those three songs, from Paris, were being released. What promotion as started other than a music video that came like a month later? I'm telling you nobody is treating this like she released 3 singles at once to see what would be her lead single, that would be a weird strategy. There has even been discussion on the breakfast shows and on Complex on whether she should have bothered dropping a video for No Frauds considering how old the Remy/Nicki beef is now.... It's just never been thought to be album related... Nicki didn't say any of them where from an album, she didn't name any of them a lead single, she isn't going on a promotional tour promoting her single, the three songs released where a nice gift/surprise to fans  

This is like Drake releasing Charged Up and Back to Back and saying his success is dipping because they didn't reach the heights of his previous songs. They weren't lead singles, they didn't appear on any album. I mean Back to Back is considered a hit anyway by rap fans because it was played all over hip-hop radio and blasting in the clubs. Nicki did a similar thing except she released 3 songs and only one was a diss track. Comparing her to Drake whose widely seen as successful and you call him that too, Charged Up went #78 and Back to Back went #21. With Nicki No Frauds went #14, Regret In Your Tears went #61 and Changed It went #71.  I think that's pretty comparable with Drake actually and of course Drak'es next release after that was the lead single to Views "Hotline Bling" which was #1 smash.

"And Nicki is not performing in a manner similar to her previous eras. Back then, she had more hype, had endless views and likes and could get a hit very quickly. "

But she is as I've shown in the numbers   No Frauds peaked at #14 which is impressive for a rapper but also for a surprise drop without promo. It's comparable numbers to tracks like Only, Moment 4 Life, Truffle Butter, Pound The Alarm and such that are among her biggest hits. Her features are going along as usual. There is just nothing to suggest a dip in her success yet and tbh I expect a little dip from The Pinkprint.

Lets see where she is when she releases her album, then we can actually judge her based on chart performance and the rest. As of now it isn't looking like Remy 'ended her career' and she seems to be travelling along at a level of success that's comparable to other eras  

Rappers are lucky in the sense that features can help them get by in between working on albums and between singles or help a potential comeback. But they get so many opportunities that it's hardly special and they get a much better deal than artists of any other genre by the sheer amount of chances they get to keep their name out there. So, in order for fairness to prevail, I can't count their features, just as I don't count the features of anyone in other genres. Annoys me to the back teeth when people say "Telephone was Beyonce's last big hit" or "Xtina isn't a flop, she had a big hit and won a Grammy for Say Something and she had Moves Like Jagger and This Moment in the last few years." What part of "features don't count, only solo material can be your hit" do these people not understand?

It doesn't matter if this new song is a new single or not, it's a new song with a music video, her first for a long while. It should sure as hell get treated like a lead single regardless of the intention. I had no idea that this was a 3 song deal and wasn't connected to an album. But I still don't see why that should make too much of a difference. New songs from an artist who's come back from a break from the charts. One of them should be smashing. The Cure isn't confirmed to be the lead of a new album, re-release, EP or whatnot, but this fanbase sure it treating it like one, and rightly so. Success for every song/single matters in this current age.

Of course she's making money because, like a lot of rappers, she has a lot of previous features that she can continue to make money off of and she's always releasing a new perfume. But success is determined by where your songs and albums are performing in the charts and how much you're selling of your current work.

People outside of urban music fans don't give two hoots about Drake. Like a lot of people in the genre, his success is all down to the fans of the genre, not the general populace. Nicki's the same these days. The only time the general public has truly got on board with her was when she did pop crossovers. Other than that, its been rap fans fuelling her. I only view someone as truly successful when fans of multiple genres know, care and buy their work. There's no problem with being considered successful in your own genre, but know the distinction between genre success and general success. I don't think enough rappers realise this.

Considering how hard it is to sell an album right now unless you're Beyonce, Ed, Adele, Taylor or Drake, I'm expecting more than a little dip with this album. Her last album didn't even reach 700k in the US and that was with a mega hit preceding it and being released in 2014 when album sales were better and her career was newer.

[Bebe 16,562]

12 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Rappers are lucky in the sense that features can help them get by in between working on albums and between singles or help a potential comeback. But they get so many opportunities that it's hardly special and they get a much better deal than artists of any other genre by the sheer amount of chances they get to keep their name out there. So, in order for fairness to prevail, I can't count their features, just as I don't count the features of anyone in other genres. Annoys me to the back teeth when people say "Telephone was Beyonce's last big hit" or "Xtina isn't a flop, she had a big hit and won a Grammy for Say Something and she had Moves Like Jagger and This Moment in the last few years." What part of "features don't count, only solo material can be your hit" do these people not understand?

It doesn't matter if this new song is a new single or not, it's a new song with a music video, her first for a long while. It should sure as hell get treated like a lead single regardless of the intention. I had no idea that this was a 3 song deal and wasn't connected to an album. But I still don't see why that should make too much of a difference. New songs from an artist who's come back from a break from the charts. One of them should be smashing. The Cure isn't confirmed to be the lead of a new album, re-release, EP or whatnot, but this fanbase sure it treating it like one, and rightly so. Success for every song/single matters in this current age.

Of course she's making money because, like a lot of rappers, she has a lot of previous features that she can continue to make money off of and she's always releasing a new perfume. But success is determined by where your songs and albums are performing in the charts and how much you're selling of your current work.

People outside of urban music fans don't give two hoots about Drake. Like a lot of people in the genre, his success is all down to the fans of the genre, not the general populace. Nicki's the same these days. The only time the general public has truly got on board with her was when she did pop crossovers. Other than that, its been rap fans fuelling her. I only view someone as truly successful when fans of multiple genres know, care and buy their work. There's no problem with being considered successful in your own genre, but know the distinction between genre success and general success. I don't think enough rappers realise this.

Considering how hard it is to sell an album right now unless you're Beyonce, Ed, Adele, Taylor or Drake, I'm expecting more than a little dip with this album. Her last album didn't even reach 700k in the US and that was with a mega hit preceding it and being released in 2014 when album sales were better and her career was newer.

I think it's fair to treat rappers differently though, if only because they are different. A pop artist wouldn't be able to feature on twenty different songs in a couple of months - for artists like Nicki that's part of the job and is relevant when talking about her success because that's where she gets a lot of attention. Nicki is known for her Monster verse (in a similar way that Kendrick is known for his Control verse) and is known for her numerous guest verses - it's almost like the main part of her job so I think it's okay to point out the successes she has had with those versus. It's a major and relevant part of her career in a way that it isn't for pop singers.

"It doesn't matter if this new song is a new single or not, it's a new song with a music video, her first for a long while. It should sure as hell get treated like a lead single regardless of the intention. I had no idea that this was a 3 song deal and wasn't connected to an album. But I still don't see why that should make too much of a difference"

It doesn't have an radio deal, she isn't promoting the single, she hasn't had any interviews, she hasn't been on any magazine covers, she hasn't performed the single - It's unfair to treat it as if it's the lead single to an upcoming project

She's also releasing a video for Regret In Your Tears but that's not being treated like her comeback, major lead single either.... This is all building hype again for her lead single and new album. She isn't trying desperately to support a single that debuted at #61... This is hype building  

"New songs from an artist who's come back from a break from the charts. One of them should be smashing. The Cure isn't confirmed to be the lead of a new album, re-release, EP or whatnot, but this fanbase sure it treating it like one, and rightly so. Success for every song/single matters in this current age."

You're comparing Nicki, a popular rapper, as if she is in the exact same lane as Gaga, a popular singer, while she shares some similarities I think a better comparison is with fellow labelmate and fellow popular rapper Drake. He also released two singles out of nowhere that didn't come from an album, he didn't promote them, do interviews or anything like that - they are singles that didn't reach a peak close to No Frauds and when he eventually released the lead single Hotline Bling from his album Views and promoted it like a lead single - it went #1.

This is similar to the lead up to The Pinkprint - quiet and suddenly a she starts with the guest verses again where she teases that her album is coming, she drops a song and music video (Lookin Ass before The Pinkprint) that isn't for her album, drops some more guest verses to build up more hype for her album and then finally releases her own lead single, promotes it like a lead single, performs it, shoots a planned out higher concept music video (not just a video she did on the fly in London) does interviews, does magazine covers and gets on her grind. 

This is like other rappers who drop mixtapes in between projects in order to garner hype for the main deal. Nicki started dropping some freestyles, she started featuring on a bunch of singles again, she dropped the 3 pack from Paris with a couple of videos, she will no doubt drop some more collabs in the coming weeks she'll drop information about her next album. 

It doesn't make sense to be comparing No Frauds to her lead singles though...
She hasn't been supporting No Frauds like Starships (a performance for the NBA, performance on American Idol, performance on Today Show, Performance on The Ellen DeGeneres Show etc + her magazine covers + interviews +radio deals +red carpet appearances + other promo) or like Anaconda (VMA performance,  iHeartRadio Music Festival performance,  Fashion Rocks performance,  MTV Europe Music Awards performance + magazine covers, radio deals, interviews and so on. 

Take it for what it is, promo singles to get her name out there again and new music to get her fans and others excited for her new album.

"But success is determined by where your songs and albums are performing in the charts and how much you're selling of your current work."

And as I keep showing and you keep ignoring, her success is totally comparable to her past success. There is no noticeable decline... The success of No Frauds is clearly comparable to her previous singles (Not lead.. But as discussed it's not really fair to compare the song with singles that have recieved support) and her current features are performing as well as her previous features  

"People outside of urban music fans don't give two hoots about Drake. Like a lot of people in the genre, his success is all down to the fans of the genre, not the general populace. Nicki's the same these days."

Okay... Nobody outside of urban music gives two hoots about Drake... But he breaks records with streams, his albums sell better than most pop girls and he has #1 after #1 hit to his name. It's fine if you put Drake and Nicki in a different lane, it's just weird and unfair to then also compare them (and their strategies) to people in the pop lane   It's also bizarre that you don't give their success any credit for some reason when it seems obvious to most that both artists are very successful. 

You can't say on one hand "Nicki is a rapper who appeals to an urban audience" and on the other hand compare The Cure and No Frauds   For the record though, I actually don't consider The Cure to be a lead single either really It was released as a surprise at Coachella, no real promotion after that, no interviews, no push as if there is a new album coming...  I don't think it needs to be this overwhelming smash like singles that she has more heavily promoted.

Didn't The Cure reach #39 though? I mean No Frauds managed a debut at #14.... The Cure didn't feature Drake in fairness, but also No Frauds didn't get debuted at Coachella.

It seems like the surprise No Frauds drop is comparable to the surprise songs dropped by Drake that charted below No Frauds and it just so happens to be charting well in comparison to The Cure too - and I'd say Gaga is a far bigger star and force. From where I'm sitting Nicki seems to be doing just fine - I'm not seeing how Remy ended her...

"I only view someone as truly successful when fans of multiple genres know, care and buy their work. There's no problem with being considered successful in your own genre, but know the distinction between genre success and general success."

You have these very weird standards that don't really make sense but whatever  When you are making millions of dollars from your music career I think you are allowed to consider yourself  'truly successful' if that isn't truly success to you then whatever... I think you have a bizarre skewed idea of success, but it's clear we are working from two very different places.

I'd say the fact that Nicki has had crossover pop hits is evidence that she has fans over both lanes - but even if she didn't... Like... so?

Katy Perry probably only appeals to a top 40 'pop' audience, do you think she is not truly successful because fans of multiple genres don't care about and buy her work?

More Life by Drake breaks streaming records on release, earning 505,000 album-equivalent units of which 226,000 were pure sales. It contained a top ten hit in Fake Love and it isn't even an official album...

His last album Views spent 13 non-consecutive weeks at number one on the Billboard 200, became the first album to accumulate one-billion streams on Apple Music. It debuted with 1.04 million album-equivalent units, with 852,000 pure sales.

It's bizarre to me that you would consider artists like Drake only successful 'within their genre'  but not 'generally successful' or 'truly successful'  

It's very clear that your standards of 'true success' are totally skewed and just don't seem to work. If an artist can sell over 800k albums in their first week and break streaming records but doesn't fit into your standard of a 'truly successful' artist then there is something wrong with how you define success...

"Her last album didn't even reach 700k in the US and that was with a mega hit preceding it and being released in 2014 when album sales were better and her career was newer."

Yeah her album in 2014 debuted with around 250k units which I think's pretty good. Miley Cyrus had managed around 270k units the previous year, it better than Unapologetic that was Rihanna's last album that did around 240k. I wouldn't have put Nicki in the range of Gaga or Perry who were outselling her by 100k copies or so. Even considering poorer album sales, considering her past albums have all done over 200k and considering her audience I'd still expect 200k  I think that's fine, I wouldn't see that as a huge decline, I'd consider that a success. I would assume she would do relatively well in streams as long as she doesn't pull off Tidal exclusives. I mean that's all speculative anyway... I still haven't seen you provide any evidence that she is suddenly unsuccessful or performing worse than previously...

I was actually referring more to her singles anyway - saying we should wait to see how her lead single goes and how her album singles chart. It just seems a little weird to claim she is suddenly unsuccessful and in this huge decline when all she has out are features that are doing as well as her previous features and a song with No Frauds that has peaked around the same as some of her biggest hits  

Until we see how her first and second singles from her new album perform we can't act like her career is in some giant decline... There is just nothing that suggests that's true...

[StrawberryBlond 13,262]

21 hours ago, Bebe said:

 

I know what you're saying. If it truly isn't the real first taste of her album, I guess we shouldn't judge it in the same way. But in terms of the success thing, urban music is a funny thing (these days, anyway). It really seems to be only its fans who know and care about these artists. I mean, even my parents, who don't listen to urban music, can name you ones from the early 2000's and before and recognise some songs from then but urban artists today? They're just invisible to those who don't listen to them. The urban community is just so big that they can still get great sales and break records, though. But they're basically unknown outside of that. It's like how Latin American artists like Shakira are killing it with views and likes on YouTube from their native Spanish-speaking audiences but they haven't been successful on worldwide charts for years or have never had worldwide success at all. Urban music today is pretty much like that.

[bujibu 462]

When it comes to Rap it's not necessarily about hit #'s, but about the content of what your release and how good it is (subjectively). Remy came for that pink chicken wing necklace and her a**. Like, it was gag worthy. I'm sorry but No Frauds is just a mediocre response, especially with Drake and Wayne on it? Remy needed no assistance, she just gave it to you in a 7 minute rap dialogue that read to filth. Nicki's was just meh. Nicki can be talented but her verses are lukewarm at best these days.

Remy slaughtered her. I thought that pink chicken wing was dumb when I first saw it, now that Remy clocked it I'll remember it for a good, long while, and that's all Remy needed to accomplish. Nicki just hid behind her hits and affiliations.