"So many fans left because Gaga started flopping"

[Willy Wonka 4]

People simply left because she wasn't on top. Just like the traditional fairweather friends, some of her fans only care about her when they see a giant #1 slapped next to her name. The fact that the competition was more challenging this time around...people in her fanbase evidently only care about her when they see her name above someone else's like Katy Perry or Rihanna.

I'm glad you took my lesson to heart 

 

But seriously, you're focusing on one aspect of this era while disregarding all the other aspects, just to discredit those who left. How convenient. It's overly simplistic and naive.

 

And to be honest, it's just a way for people to make themselves feel above others while asserting that there's no "valid" reason why anyone would've left other than chart position. By discrediting those who left as being success-chasing or simply "fairweather fans", it makes fans who stayed feel better and makes them feel more righteous.

I see your point but it applies more like this: 

Because Gaga changed her image, sound, and message so drastically than what many fans were used to in the begging, many fans left. Which resulted in her flopping. 

That would only be logical if fans were the only ones that were buying her music in the first place.

[Hauser 1,262]

I'm glad you took my lesson to heart 

 

But seriously, you're focusing on one aspect of this era while disregarding all the other aspects, just to discredit those who left. How convenient. It's overly simplistic and naive.

 

And to be honest, it's just a way for people to make themselves feel above others while asserting that there's no "valid" reason why anyone would've left other than chart position. By discrediting those who left as being success-chasing or simply "fairweather fans", it makes fans who stayed feel better and makes them feel more righteous.

That would only be logical if fans were the only ones that were buying her music in the first place.

Then who do you bought her music in the beginning? Not the haters. Her music, image, and message had a very broad appeal. Everybody was a fan back in 2009 which is why she accomplished so much so early on in her career and 2010 was the HER year. Things became a lot darker and really serious so of course the casual listening audience moved on. 

[Sara 1,128]

So, what could the cause be? There could be a third variable that causes BOTH events, which is referred to as a lurking variable. Just like the meaning of ARTPOP, a lurking variable could be literally anything: not liking Gaga's hair, not identifying with the music, not liking the aesthetic of the era, not liking Gaga's social media activity, preferring a different genre, etc.

Sure, there are multiple variables at play. But I doubt a fan who loved TF, TFM, and BTW is going to hate ARTPOP, or is going to hate it enough to bail as a fan.

Many legendary acts have loyal followers and decades of sold-out tours despite having decades of albums the fans don't like.

Charting isn't the only causal variable, but it's a strong one, and possibly/probably (just in my experience dealing with the Charts threads) a leading one.

[Shadow 6,039]

It always comes down to the music. Do people really decide if they like an artist based on their popularity? Sounds too forced to be enjoyable. But yeah, a correlation doesn't arbitrarily create a conclusion.

[Mister G 9,165]

Then who do you bought her music in the beginning? Not the haters. Her music, image, and message had a very broad appeal. Everybody was a fan back in 2009 which is why she accomplished so much so early on in her career and 2010 was the HER year. Things became a lot darker and really serious so of course the casual listening audience moved on.

Exactly and no one is discrediting anything. It's just a valid observation that most people left because she wasn't on top. I mean yeah other things happened along the way but you can't deny that her not being commercially successful led to people fleeing.

[Tarl69gp 62]

I think the level of education you require with that post will not be supplied here; however, it is a great notion. And the ones she lost were not really fans, were they? And if they expect to find an artist who never has flop hits, they will be disappointed. Everyone has their time. Look at Mariah. Perry is on top now and may be for quite some time, but fads change. Pop culture is so fickle. Lady Gaga will have hits in the future because she has true talent and stage presence. If she never does, it will not effect the affinity I have towards her.

TArL

[Mister G 9,165]

I think the level of education you require with that post will not be supplied here; however, it is a great notion. And the ones she lost were not really fans, were they? And if they expect to find an artist who never has flop hits, they will be disappointed. Everyone has their time. Look at Mariah. Perry is on top now and may be for quite some time, but fads change. Pop culture is so fickle. Lady Gaga will have hits in the future because she has true talent and stage presence. If she never does, it will not effect the affinity I have towards her.

TArL

:legend:

[Ladle Ghoulash 11,281]

Absolutely agree. Much in the way Gaga's meteoric rise was a perfect storm of a lot of different factors, same with this relative lull. A lot of factors are playing in: over-exposure, Gaga's polarizing image, the media's treatment of Gaga, the change in the pop zeitgeist etc etc

 

And when people talk about "flopping", they make it seem like "flopping" is a permanent state of existence, when all of the greats have had albums that don't enter the conversation when people talk "greatest hits" or "biggest albums". 

only here for slayga

THAT GIF OMG I LOVE THAT SHOW

[Haroon 49,685]

I totally agree :trootea:

There are way too many factors involved to pin point exactly what causes what, which is why I don't like it when people give their opinions on the causes as factual statements  

[Giorgiii 0]

This reminds me of my Philosophy classes

[Deacon 5]

Fantastic post.

[Michael 533]

I can't be said for definite, but it's 99% the reason.

[Willy Wonka 4]

I can't be said for definite, but it's 99% the reason.

Show me the reciepts bb

[Michael 533]

Show me the reciepts bb

Lol I don't need to I know it, I don't care if you don't

[Mister G 9,165]

Absolutely agree. Much in the way Gaga's meteoric rise was a perfect storm of a lot of different factors, same with this relative lull. A lot of factors are playing in: over-exposure, Gaga's polarizing image, the media's treatment of Gaga, the change in the pop zeitgeist etc etc

And when people talk about "flopping", they make it seem like "flopping" is a permanent state of existence, when all of the greats have had albums that don't enter the conversation when people talk "greatest hits" or "biggest albums".

THAT GIF OMG I LOVE THAT SHOW

It makes sense though for a situation like this to have many different circumstances behind it. Granted I believe a chunk of it is because some people only stick around when you're #1. Overall though, I think it's a mixture of that, plus everything else such as the appeal of her new music, her image, her marketing approach, etc. Willy Wonka sorry for not understanding what you meant originally if you're reading this. Was half asleep boo :hug: